Yet another thread about boat sheds

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:19 pm

Nice piece of work.
You'll thank yourself for those kneewalls many many times.

My one concern is that the framing of your end walls creates a hard spot in the middle of what is really a very flexible member, and does so at the weakest point. When that Big Gust hits, my money says that this is where the first bow will snap.
I'd think about adding a few more diagonals in that area to "drag" some of that load onto other bows. Or somehow disconnect that bow from the wall framing so that it can wiggle with its brethren.

Next step (after covering) is to build a nice workbench across the back wall. :)

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:22 pm

What size bows did you go with anyway?

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:14 am

He mentioned that he went with 18' bows, if you meant length.

R.

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:02 pm

Chris,

Nice, nice job. I am very envious of those gorgeous bows. I am quite sure it will be nice to get the cover up and your Yankee 30 out of the weather.

Cheers, Bill

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:32 pm

figment wrote:My one concern is that the framing of your end walls creates a hard spot in the middle of what is really a very flexible member, and does so at the weakest point. When that Big Gust hits, my money says that this is where the first bow will snap

That got me thinking, so I contacted David Stimson, designer of the shed:

David Stimson wrote:I have built a number of these sheds, all of them with doorways and headers, and never had a problem. Bevel the studs to fit the bows, put the headers in between, and let the hurricanes come as they may....

Which has me reassured. I did fill in between the inner and outer skins of the boat with an extra 2x3 chunk right where the header connects to the bows, so that at least both skins are involved with load transfer. And there are two horizontals within a foot of it, spreading the load.

He did mention, though, that I should brace the knee wall against snow load from the outside since there will be a lot of snow falling there off of the roof. Good point.

I've been away all this week, and this weekend isn't looking like a good one for shrink wrapping. Drat. Hopefully soon, however!

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:41 am

Chris! Wait a bit! It'll be spring in a week or two.

I've gotta' finish my house project in the next two weekends; the first marina party is on the 28th.

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:03 am

Doug wrote:Chris! Wait a bit! It'll be spring in a week or two.

Don't I know it! This is even worse than I feared when I was waffling over whether or not to start on it in December, but there you go. That said - anyone who's spent a spring in Halifax (or south coastal NS at all, really) will know that working under a cover is still pretty much a necessity. We generally have at least half rain days, and even the non-rain days might not be completely dry. The shed will allow me to work with impunity, and leave things in incomplete states as well, which will also make me much more productive.

Shoalcove · Post by **Shoalcove** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:42 am

Yes indeed! I'm envious of your shed, I know that my biggest challenge is the weather in spring. I tend to arrive at the boatyard with a inside and an outside list. Of course some days I change lists 3 or 4 imes in a day!
A couple seasons ago I redid my decks with Perfection. I applied my last coat on a perfect painting day. Clear sky, no wind, good temperatue. I started at 11am and as I put away my brush a black cloud rolled in and rained for 30 minutes. Then sun again. Make that the second last coat...
Cheers, David

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:26 pm

Hey Chris,

I have a request and feel free to decline.

Would you be willing to post an approximate summary of you shed building cost (not including the foundation) and approximate labor. I think it would be informative to be able to compare the different types of sheds with actual experiences.

Bill

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:36 pm

Hi Bill,

Sure, no problem. I can't give an accurate amount since I haven't kept accurate count, but roughly speaking I spent about $1200 on lumber and about $300 on fasteners. I will spend another $4-500 on shrink-wrapping ($350 or so in shrink-wrap). In terms of time it's even harder - I was keeping tally for awhile, but then I stopped. I think the last number I had added up to was 96 or so - so I'd put in a guess for the total at around 140 hours (including time friends and family have volunteered). If I built another it would go much faster, of course - probably more like 100 hours for the same design again.

How does that compare with your shed?

Cheers,

Chris

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:11 am

Chris Campbell wrote:Hi Bill,

Sure, no problem. I can't give an accurate amount since I haven't kept accurate count, but roughly speaking I spent about $1200 on lumber and about $300 on fasteners. I will spend another $4-500 on shrink-wrapping ($350 or so in shrink-wrap). In terms of time it's even harder - I was keeping tally for awhile, but then I stopped. I think the last number I had added up to was 96 or so - so I'd put in a guess for the total at around 140 hours (including time friends and family have volunteered). If I built another it would go much faster, of course - probably more like 100 hours for the same design again.

How does that compare with your shed?

Cheers,

Chris

Chris,

Thanks for the info. Quite nice to have when comparing all these options. I really like the way your shed is turning out and at times sort of wish my on path went the same way. Maybe next time.

My Clearspan was right around $4000 delivered (which was about $700). And like you, time is a bit harder to sum up. I would guess something between 40 and 80 hours. I also could knock one out much faster now.

Also, my moisture issue has just about disappeared. Most of my gravel pad is a nice dry gray color and I am no longer worried about working in a terrarium.

Bill

Cheers, Bill

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:53 pm

I'm happy with my shed so far also - and will be happier once it's covered and has survived a storm! The big unknown of how it will do when it really howls is quite disconcerting - that's a definite upside to your shed - you know how it will behave. I expect I'll be alright, but there is definitely a bit more uncertainty when you build yourself.

As far as moisture goes, I'm glad to hear that yours is under control now. I wasn't able to put a layer of plastic on the ground, and as has been mentioned, built on wet ground, so I may be in for it. I was planning to install one of those rotary extractors that spin on the roof, but haven't gotten there yet - perhaps that will be this weekend since I won't be shrinking by then unless the forecast changes (no windless days in sight). It will be a nuisance to have to keep everything covered from the shed's own weather systems, no question.

Cheers,

Chris

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:17 pm

Chris,

I know what you mean about the wind and weather. Well really I don't since our blows are probably small puffs compared to yours. That said, I drove over to the boat three or four times in the middle of the night this winter to check how it was handling the wind. No problems at all.

With respect to interior weather, what I learned was that the site needs some time to come to an equilibrium. I got worried early on but I won't really know until next winter how my ground isolation turns out. So far I am getting much happier.

One other thing that I did, you may already be planning, is to put in gutters. In my case they were a bit rustic and I only needed it on the high side. But it really seems to help carry the water off the roof away from the foundation.

Can't wait to see the plastic hung.

Bill

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:27 pm

Gutters? I can't picture how that would work. Does your plastic/canvas end before the foundation, so there is an opportunity for water to drip there and choose to travel either way: in or out?

In my case I intend to have the shrink wrap extend onto the ground, and to bury it there, eliminating the possibility of water or (more importantly, really) wind entering at the base. So I don't see how gutters would work in my case.

I'll really need ventilation, though...

Thanks for mentioning the time to reach equilibrium - that's very helpful. I was having somewhat similar thoughts - figuring that each time the moisture cycled from liquid to vapour I might lose some through ventilation, and eventually I'd arrive at a happy humidity level. Of course we're both in very damp areas, so time will tell.

Cheers,

Chris

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:43 am

I'll really need ventilation, though...

Thanks for mentioning the time to reach equilibrium - that's very helpful. I was having somewhat similar thoughts - figuring that each time the moisture cycled from liquid to vapour I might lose some through ventilation, and eventually I'd arrive at a happy humidity level. Of course we're both in very damp areas, so time will tell.

Chris,

This is what I thought as well. Even went so far as to install a gable vent in my closed end wall and hung a box fan in front of it. So far it has been a complete and utter waste of time and money. When the gravel pad was still really wet no amount of ventilation made any difference at all. But we have had a usual winter with lots of rain and a bit of snow and little by little the ground water in the gravel foundation has evaporated. So my advice would be to keep the checkbook closed until next winter.

Gutters? I can't picture how that would work. Does your plastic/canvas end before the foundation, so there is an opportunity for water to drip there and choose to travel either way: in or out?

Not only was I vague, I may have oversold my hand a bit. Here is a picture of the shed and the building next to it.

With this setup I was finding that runoff from the shed roof could run back under the wall and continue to saturate the gravel pad. So my "gutter" solution was just 40 ft of 6 inch plastic drainage pipe that I cut down the middle. For now it is just resting on the gravel and the roof fabric just folds into it. Sorry I don't have a picture.

Bill

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:11 am

Chris,

Put the ventilators of choice in the ends. Could be ordinary house type with the sheeting stapled between the frame and the vent. Could be readily closed from within with a plywood panel.

Burying the sheet on the long edges sounds easy and cheap. If it turns out that you really need guttering, then the buried sheet, if formed into an appropriately shaped and sloped trough filled with the gravel would work fine.

Alternatively, you could nail 'K' guttering to the sides of the shed at the elevation of the joint between knee and hoop and goober the top edge with sealant. That location would pinch the sheet between gutter and structure for easier sealing. Of course, you'd goober neatly and skillfully!

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:59 am

At last! The shed is closed in. And it's only the middle of March!

After a long weekend of work to sheath the gable ends in plywood and a long Tuesday with little wind to wrap the structure, I have a boat shed where there once stood a wooden sculpture over a boat, and I'm pleased.

The plywood gable ends were a last minute decision to strengthen the shed and increase the likelihood of success on the wrapping - which turned out to be a good decision. The wrapping took from 9-5 yesterday without having to deal with the gable ends - I don't think it would have been possible to get the whole thing done in the low-wind window that we otherwise.

Great. Now time to work on the boat (after a few minor shed finishing up tasks, of course)!

Cheers,

Chris

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:32 am

Chris, and when the boat is done (we don't say 'finished') and the shed is vacant, you'll find it a really handy space for all kinds of projects. I do all my woodwork sawing and sanding in mine, and keep the main shop nice and dust-free.

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:22 am

Chris Campbell wrote:At last! The shed is closed in. And it's only the middle of March!

After a long weekend of work to sheath the gable ends in plywood and a long Tuesday with little wind to wrap the structure, I have a boat shed where there once stood a wooden sculpture over a boat, and I'm pleased.

The plywood gable ends were a last minute decision to strengthen the shed and increase the likelihood of success on the wrapping - which turned out to be a good decision. The wrapping took from 9-5 yesterday without having to deal with the gable ends - I don't think it would have been possible to get the whole thing done in the low-wind window that we otherwise.

Great. Now time to work on the boat (after a few minor shed finishing up tasks, of course)!

Cheers,

Chris

Chris,

Looks great! Well done.

Bill

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:29 am

Thanks. I am definitely tickled with the result - have to paint the gable ends to make it look a little neater, but no question I'm happy. Of course the shed is better looking from the inside where you can see the bows - but I think clear plastic covering would have been much too hot in the summer, so I'll have to live with this.

Great idea to use the shed for the messy stuff and keep the shop clean, but I'm not sure it'll work for me. My workshop is across the road from the shed, and the boat will be in there 7 months of the year anyway (our east coast climate is a little less hospitable than yours!). But I'm sure there will be other uses for it in it's own off season (the sailing season!).

Cheers,

Chris