Stimson shed

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:29 pm

Tim, you mentioned Stimson sheds in this thread, http://www.triton381.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27

My new "place of employment" has oodles of yard space, and Brownell's transport fee was a wash with the savings of winter storage fee at the boatyard, so I bought some plans for a Stimson Shed.

A couple of weekends ago I bought an ungodly pile of 1x3 lumber. 10 pounds of 2" screws later, I now have an ungodly pile of broken throwaways, and a nice neat stack of (32) 16' bow frames.

Today was The Day. No, not Haulout Day, that comes later. Today was the day I put some lumber in the sky. A 35' 2x6 ridge beam is perched 14' above the ground, (supported for now at only three stations).

Working singlehanded made this an interesting evolution. I had only a few hours of the afternoon free, and so had no distinct goal of progress for the day. It was a series of "let's see"s.
Let's see if I can even lift this 35' beam and carry it over there.
Let's see if I can figure a way to stabilize these bows while I set things up.
Let's see what happens when I boost this end up a bit, then that end, then this end, then the middle.....
Let's see if I can find a ladder tall enough...

All culminating in a pretty exhilarating moment when I grabbed a handful of screws and turned around to see the outline of this thing against the sky.

Post by **Tim** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:16 am

Can't wait to see the shed! And then your progress within during the winter. There's something inherently satisfying about building a boat shed, however temporary. Good luck with the rest of the construction.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:57 pm

I swear, if I live to be a thousand years old, I'll never find anything so useful on this earth as a forklift. A million and one uses. Today: mobile scaffold for reaching the top of the bows to secure to the ridge beam.

Half of the bows are up. Supercool.

Post by **Tim** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:24 am

That's going to end up being a real nice little structure. I think that's the way to go next time I have to build something temporary, or someday as a more-or-less permanent boat cover setup for winter storage. (Next property...not enough room here to litter the landscape with any more temporary buildings!)

Thanks for posting your experiences with building it. I look forward to seeing the rest come together, and to see how the boat fits.

Forklifts are great. I would like to have one, though its utility here at the shop would be diminished since it couldn't get in and around the shop when more than one boat is present. I have a feeling I would have one already if not for this important limitation. The more stuff I have going on, both inside and out, though, the more potentially useful such a vehicle becomes.

Sure would be nice for getting engines in and out!

Post by **Tim** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:27 am

Imagestation Photos

I notice that the photos hosted on Imagestation never show up for me. If I cut and paste the photos' "Properties" (URL where hosted) into the browser, I can see them, and thereafter each photo shows up properly in the forum on my screen (I suppose because the photo is now stored in my cache).

Anyone else having this problem?

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:58 am

Yep, same problem.

The structure does looks great and makes me wonder if I should try the same. Does a structure like that benefit from any solar heating during the winter? My problem is that the yard owner won't allow any sort of heating inside. Electrical heating anyway, because it costs him too much (so does my storage bill but I digress...) and I hadn't considered burning fuel of any kind because of the fumes. Mike, I know it gets cold where you are so how do you plan on keeping warm? Or rather, I know what a hardy soul you are but how do you keep the boat warm enough for the epoxy?

-Britton

Post by **dasein668** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:11 am

Yup also. Not sure what the deal is with Imagestation.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:50 am

ah. I'd heard that Imagestation was doing something to prevent this sort of posting-host use, but hadn't run up against it yet. I dunno how to get around it, so I guess I'll need to get Julia to teach me how to upload to our cerjanickuss.com site for future pics.

heat.... well, Stimson markets these structures as "greenhouse sheds" if you use clear plastic. I'm going to use 40% opaque white plastic (think "shrink wrap"), primarily due to security/privacy concerns, but also because I don't really want to promote THAT much heat gain.
As it is, the shed will get good sun in the morning and will probably pick up 20 or 30 degrees on a sunny day. That should keep things bearable through the afternoon hours, which will be 90% of my working time. For supplemental heat beyond that, we have a 25 year old version of this thing:

Kerosene-fired. My brother and I have always called it "the jet engine", though I've come to learn that the more common street name for it is "salamander". If someone can explain to me WHY it's known as a "salamander" I'll be eternally grateful.
I don't imagine that this shed will be airtight enough for fumes to become a problem.
Also, during the bulkhead project I habitually ran an electric powered oil filled radiator inside the boat, which was really effective. I may fall back on this if the noise or fumes of the jet engine become a bother.

aw, c'mon Tim! you can fit at least two more sheds in that backyard!!! septic field schmeptic field!

This did occur to me, though: if that Seabreeze proves to be just a bit more than the barn can easily swallow, adding 12' of temporary Stimson extension out the front door could be a good low-cost solution.

Post by **Tim** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:44 am

Figment wrote:This did occur to me, though: if that Seabreeze proves to be just a bit more than the barn can easily swallow, adding 12' of temporary Stimson extension out the front door could be a good low-cost solution.

My thoughts exactly.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:20 am

My experience with heaters such as your "jet engine" has not been good. It will probably work okay for you but I have been exposed to lots of "salamanders" and just can't stand them anymore. I have become sensitised and develop allergic reactions at the sight of them. I did use another type with a heat exchanger but now I can't remember what they were called. Heat exchanger = no fumes in the work area and I can live with the noise.

I think salamander comes from the military - maybe a trade name or something.

As for privacy concerns. What is it exactly you intend to do in there? I recently ruined a nice pair of Carhardts by sitting in epoxy but that experience has not convinced me to glue in the nude just yet.

-Britton

Post by **Tim** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:41 am

bcooke wrote:I recently ruined a nice pair of Carhardts by sitting in epoxy...

Think of it as extra reinforcement in the seat! :<)

Besides, Carhartt pants are no good if they're not at least somewhat dirty and worn--gotta have some epoxy and glop on there.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:58 pm

Actually, they were okay for about two weeks, just a little stiff on the backside. Then I was crawling around the head area and sat on the handle of a seacock which because my pants had become so stiff, promptly ripped a 10-12 inch hole across the sitting area allowing a force 4 breeze to circulate around places that prefer to stay warm. A little dirt is good and looks cool, a gaping hole exposing my buttocks is a little too daring for the boatyard. I know places where leather pants with cutouts for butt cheeks are acceptable (I have been told). My boat isn't parked there. (If it were I would expect a lot more free beers and pickup lines!)

-Britton

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:55 pm

Hey, how come I don't always log in automatically anymore? When I access from an e-mail link I am sometimes coming up as guest. Only sometimes though, very strange... I will have to track this.
-B.

Post by **Tim** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:03 pm

Boy, I think you know a little too much about those cheekless leather pants, mistah! hehe

I can't answer why you have problems with the automatic login. Are you using the same computer each time? Anything else different between your sessions? Since the auto login requires cookies, do you have a setup that automatically purges cookies every so often?

Just throwing stuff to see if it sticks. I'm not really sure what the issue is; mine always stays logged in no problem.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:37 pm

Well, I don't think it wise to be handling epoxy in the nude, but there's more to nude life than epoxy, so.....

Nah. Not going anywhere with that one.
This shed is about 40 yards off of a rather heavily trafficked road, and I don't really need the whole world knowing what's going on in there, lest I open the hatch one fine morning to see a bunch of tools missing.

No pics today, but all 32 bows are up and secure. Longitudinal members and plastic sheathing will need to wait for a backordered box of bolts to arrive from Jamestown.

Post by **Tim** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:25 am

Figment wrote:...I don't really need the whole world knowing what's going on in there, lest I open the hatch one fine morning to see a bunch of tools missing...

Just put a padlock on the door! :<O hehe

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:07 am

Nah. Not going anywhere with that one.

The voice of reason.

You are waiting for backordered bolts from Jamestown as well? I had ordered some 3/8 x 2 bolts last month then forgot they were backordered and ordered them again. Now I have plenty and yesterday I realized that half of those I ordered should have been 3in bolts instead, so I am waiting again...

Boy, I think you know a little too much about those cheekless leather pants, mistah! hehe

I think I saw them on cable TV once. Yeah, that's it, cable TV.

I have a boat to pay attention to...

-Britton

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:30 pm

Anywaaaaaaaaay.

Jamestown actually disappointed me with the backordered bolts. Two weeks later I called to check on the order and was told "oh, yeah, we've been meaning to call you. Our supplier requires that we order a minimum of 400 bolts but you only ordered 225, so I don't know what you want to do.....".
That really rubbed me the wrong way. It wasn't a special order item. In a case like that, I think they should order the 400 bolts, sell me the 225, and put the remainder on a shelf until the next guy comes along. I was peeved enough to drive 20 miles and pay 20% more for the bolts from another source. I've come to expect better from Jamestown.

The other little disappointment came when I opened the box of plastic sheeting to see that it was clear, not white. It was entirely my error, not the supplier's, and I wasn't about to eat the cost and wait another two weeks for white plastic to arrive, so I'll need to address my privacy/security issues some other way.

But for all that, she's done. A little over a month and $1000 later, I have an enclosed shed. It'll be nice to be able to say "I worked on boat stuff today" and actually mean BOAT, not SHED.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:50 am

Too bad about Jamestown's service. I have always been treated better. If they advertise having the bolts you needed it seems rediculous not to order the 400 and sell you 225. They probably pay for their 400 by selling the 225 anyway - and then they have them available for the next guy and if the bolts are in the catalog then there will be a next guy. Some low level manager isn't thinking there...

I am envious of the shed. If I thought I would have the time to work on the boat more this winter I would give it a try but I think I need the slow season to rebuild the materials kitty - maybe just a simple interior project or two. We all know how those go :-)

-Britton

Post by **dasein668** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:32 am

bcooke wrote: I am envious of the shed. If I thought I would have the time to work on the boat more this winter I would give it a try but I think I need the slow season to rebuild the materials kitty - maybe just a simple interior project or two. We all know how those go :-)

-Britton

Hey, if you're bored and aching for projects, I have PLENTY going on and I'm always looking for free labor! hehe

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:54 pm

Ask me in January. I will be out of money around then and looking for some gruel and a dry place to sleep at night.

-Britton

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:18 pm

Evidently, when I enclosed the shed in plastic, my efforts at sealing edges and penetrations were far more effective than I'd anticipated. Moisture from the ground can't escape, and it's friggin HUMID in there if I leave the door closed.
Vents. I need to come up with something cheap and easy for basic ventilation. I'm thinking of something akin to those upside down bucket through the membrane things you see on shrinkwrapped boats.
Or I may scrounge a junkyard for a couple of actual attic vent thinges and figure a way to install them in a wall that's just a sheet of plastic.
Any ideas?

I pulled the engine the other day, anchoring the hoist tackle (mainsheet tackle, actually) to the ridge beam, and then spider-man-slinging it aft beyond the transom so I could lower it to a handtruck on the ground.
I was mildly nervous about what that strain (visible deflection of the ridge) would do to the integrity of the plastic, but today's torrential rain and 25knot winds aren't getting through, so all is well.
Waiting on our first real snow.

Post by **Tim** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:28 pm

I ran into the same moisture/humidity problem with my first shed in particular, the one I built around my Ensign. I installed a pair of el-cheapo plastic gable vents, one in each end. It seemed to help somewhat.

Glissando's plastic shed featured a pretty substantial opening at the aft end, where the ground sloped away beneath the frame, and I don't remember having serious moisture problems in that shed. But there was definitely some.

windrose · Post by **windrose** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:06 pm

You can also add a vapor barrier (plastic sheeting) to the ground. I built a nice Stimson shed and used a vapor barrier on the floor--just heavy plastic with gravel over the top-- and used corragated plastic (like cardboard) for the bottom 3' on the sides (available cheap from any sign shop). This way in the summer I could take off the corragated side panels and open the vent in the peak and get thermo siphoning going on to suck the heat out.

We called the Viking Enclave, many small boats came out the doors and many good times were had in the "Viking Enclave". Good luck.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:12 pm

She survived the snowy part of the "blizzard" just fine. Then the wind picked up. An unlucky puff picked up the shed wizard-of-oz style and deposited it upside down on the other side of a 10' fence.

That's what she looked like when I pulled up. Somehow, the boat appears to have escaped injury. Tools and parts were EVERYWHERE.

Launch day is 3 months away, so I have no time to waste in rebuilding. It looks like enough of the bows may have survived to allow me to reassemble them into a shed of the same size simply by increasing the spacing. I hope.

Big Question: how do I pound stakes into frozen gravel???

Clearly the signpost-type stakes I used the first time were ineffective. I'm thinking to try 2' hunks of rebar with an end sharpened on the bench grinder.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:30 am

I anchored my shed because of high winds. (I love my Stimson Shed !!!) I built side walls out of old pallets, set vertical and screwed to pallets sitting on the ground, protruding outside of the shed. Angle braces were added every 3 feet, then water-filled 45 gallon drums set on the pallets to hold them down. So far so good....

You could screw your frames to pallets and weigh them down with something heavy.

Post by **Tim** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:13 am

I can't get your photo to show up even when I cut and paste the photo properties/URL into my browser. Can you email me that photo and I'll repost it here? Not to be voyeuristic, but I would like to see the picture.

I'd like to find a way around this photo-hosting problem, as photos from various free sites just don't seem to work here. But that's a subject for another post.

I'm really sorry to hear about the "big bad wolf" problem with your ex-shed (it huffed, and puffed, and blew the shed down...). It's asking a lot of any lightweight plastic building to stand up to the sort of winds we had in the northeast over the weekend, with numerous documented gusts of over hurricane force. Success or failure seems to be partly a matter of luck, and partly a matter of the shed's ultimate location and protection.

I must admit that I found myself thinking about your shed yesterday, and how it would fare in the storm. I hope you're able to get it back together, but surely that's a project and delay you didn't want.

Glad to hear that the boat and tools seem to be OK.

Sharpened rebar (how easy is it to grind that stuff?) should be able to be pounded into the frozen ground with a sledge, I think--with difficulty. I guess you'll find out. Otherwise, lots of external weight (such as Peter's drums) to somehow hold the building in place seems in order. And lots of finger-crossing to hope we don't see gale or higher force winds over the next three months.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:44 am

Boy, the shed mishap is a real bummer. It won't be much consolation now but in five years when your boat is gleaming and you are telling the story about how you fixed her up (over many beers of course) the shed tumbling episode is going to make a great humoruous footnote. It is the unintended consequences that make it an adventure.

Today is a beautiful sunny day -if a mite bit chilly- and I bet you will have your shed back up and operational any minute now.

-Britton

P.S. I spent the storm away at a friends and I am leaving for the boatyard now to see how much work I am in for today...

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:05 pm

Julia took a few pics. I'll dig them up and send them along. Until then, let this be your mental picture: After boiling for about six hours, take the chicken carcass out of the soup pot, and drop it on the kitchen floor from shoulder height.

Sharpening rebar shouldn't be too bad. It's just steel, after all.
However, a different solution has come to mind, partly inspired by your water barrels, Peter. Rather than wasting time trying to find a way to drive stakes into frozen earth, I think I'm going to tie the ridge beam down to a series of deadmen with steel guy wires.

On one side of the shed, I'm going to park a 40' trailer. That oughta do. On the other side, I'll use an old 275 gallon oil tank (filled with water) to hold down the front corner, and I'll probably tie the rear corner to the base of a fencepost. I may elect to run a strap up and over the middle, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:09 pm

I must say that I love your pallet-kneewalls, Peter.

I really would like another 2' of height in the shed, but I don't think I can afford the time it would take to modify/rebuild my kneewalls at this point. They actually survived pretty well.

Post by **Tim** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:15 pm

OK, here's the destruction. What a shame!

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:41 am

Oh boy, what a shame. But it's amazing how well some of it it held together!

My shed originally sat on the ground, closer to the garage, without the sidewalls. I had a nice level floor (on pallets) of 5/8" t&g OSB with 1/4" sanded plywood on top, painted off-white.

At the time I planned to build a wooden Folkboat in there, and spent many happy hours on hands and knee pads doing the lofting.

Plans changed, however, and I used it for a cabinet shop for a while, and then for sailmaking. It was a great space to work in ... light, airy, and clean with a smooth floor.

Then I bought the San Juan 24 and needed more headroom. I also had to twist the shed at an angle to the garage to get the boat in, so I removed the floor, swivelled the shed, and added the walls.

When I get a Triton I'll have to lengthen it by one arch, but I think I'm OK for height and width.

Good luck on re-building yours Let's hope the storms are over.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:20 pm

Certain sections survived as well as they did because she landed in a 5' plowbank of light fluffy snow, and also because she was rather overbuilt to begin with. Frames 28" o.c.

The plan is to rebuild with frames 35" o.c., which should still be enough to handle any snow load CT is likely to see. I wasn't able to salvage as many frames as I first thought. I need to build seven, but I should be able to knock those out tomorrow morning.

At the end of the day today, I am where I was when I started this thread. Kneewalls up, ridge beam in the sky supported by three pairs of frames.

More snow and wind predicted for tomorrow morning. Here's hoping that the temporary diagonal braces hold.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:43 pm

It's up. With frames 35" o.c., it's not as rock-solid as it was, but it'll do. I think 30 or 32" is probably ideal spacing for the frames. Live and learn.
The end walls were actually 90% salvageable, which was a nice time-saving surprise.

New plastic should arrive tomorrow or thursday. Can you believe I lost two days because the greenhouse supply place doesn't cut plastic in the rain??!! I made sure to order white this time, so at least something gets upgraded through this ordeal.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:48 pm

Edit to the above: I lost a WEEK because the greenhouse supply place doesn't cut plastic in the rain. In the end, I couldn't wait for them. A local industrial supply house had 4mil poly on hand at a fraction of the cost, so that's the way I went.
It's not nearly as strong as what was on there before, but hopefully I'll get away with it. I only need it to last ten weeks.

I'm back in business, two weeks after the crash, give or take an hour.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:16 am

Figment:
My 6 mil poly from the building supply (uv resistant) is 3 years old and still holding up well. Today it was cold enough to stretch it real tight and when it rained it was like working inside a snare drum.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:28 pm

Hey Mike, I thought I would add some life to this thread.

I was wondering if you had any specific comments about your shed now that you have a season's use under your belt.

I am going to try and build the same thing this next month and I was wondering what you thought were "ideal" measurements (for the Triton), special useful added features and stuff of that like.

-Britton

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:00 pm

Ideally, do something like what Peter built. My two issues with my shed are humidity/ventilation and height/width at deck height. Peter's modifications address both of these issues very well, I think.

It all depends on how long you want it to last. You can build it like a brick shithouse and have it last indefinitely, or you can have something that wiggles in the breeze but survives the first winter intact.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:01 am

Yeah, I liked the picture Peter posted. I wish I could prep the ground with a moisture barrier but I don't think I will be able to do that before the boat gets parked.

My ... issues with my shed are ... height/width at deck height

Can a guy get by with 3 feet of clearance around the boat or is more needed. Can one get by with a little less (seeing the storage fee is based on square footage occupied) Keeping in mind that sanding and painting of the hull is on the schedule as well as a new toerail. How high do you think the ridge pole should be for deck sanding and painting? For that matter how long did you make your shed?

-Britton

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:40 am

IIRC, my shed is 35' long, but I"m not paying rent by the square foot. I think you could get away with 32' and be perfectly happy. The Triton is a fairly fine-ended boat. Yeah, I think that 3' on each side of the boat is great. Width really only affects you for the fattest part of the boat, which is only about 4' of its length.

For an arched-side shed like a Stimson, the way to get adequate width at deck height is not to build a wider shed (wider would mean longer lumber which could be tough to find), but a taller one. That's what I like about Peter's shed, he built it on 4' kneewalls. Mine is on 2' kneewalls, and this difference probably translates to an extra 18" on each side of the boat at deck height. Many were the times I wished I had that extra 18".
Basically, what I'm telling you is that 16' bows (16' wide shed) are the practical limit of 1x3 strapping lumber, but that's ok because it's actually more effective to do kneewalls than to do longer bows.

So, this shed isn't going to be on your property, it's going to be at the boat yard? If so, then I'm not sure that a Stimson shed is the answer. I think you'll want something that is easier to disassemble when the job is done so you can stop paying that rent ASAP. As much as I'm loathe to suggest them, a "Cover-It" shelter may be more appropriate.

If you're paying rent by the square foot, then a straight-sided shed would be more efficient because you could get away with a 12 or 13' wide footprint instead of 16' (8' beam plus 30" per side) and still have adequate width at deck height.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:41 pm

Thanks Mike,

I am renting and my landlords made it clear that after the last boat moved out they didn't want another in its place. My boatyard is actually against structures of any kind and they want to get rid of all project boats much as everyone else these days.

To my benefit though I have a history of completely my projects rather than abandoning them plus I work for them somtimes in the busy seasons and offer my services free of charge other times. Plus I work on their personal boats. Plus I am a nice guy.

The yard is running short of covered storage space (one owner can't stop collecting boats and expanding his shop area) and is interested in taking over the structure when I am done. Permission to build is likely to be contingent on giving them the structure when I move Why don't they build the structures themselves? They are cheap; very very cheap.

The area is quite exposed, being surrounded by marshlands on three sides, and snowfall can be an issue so I thought the peaked roof and sloping sides would shed snow, ice and wind quite well. I really haven't done too much research but everyone seems to rave about the stimsons so I thought that would be the way to go.

Thanks for the input.

-Britton

Post by **dasein668** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:29 pm

Geez Britton, your not describing your family very charitably! hehe

A30_John · Post by **A30_John** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:41 pm

Britton,

Whatever building you choose, I'd suggest putting some tarps down on the floor to act as a vapor barrier and covering them with plywood or something. I think you'd regret not having the vapor barrier.

Keep us posted on your building. I'm wondering what I'm going to do for shelter this winter.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:17 am

Geez Britton, your not describing your family very charitably! hehe

Since my cousin is part owner and business manager of the yard in question it does make the negotiations somewhat more difficult. Tim and Nathan got an earfull of my anti-cousin rants this summer.

Curiously, the other owner is perfectly happy to have me set up shop on the property. Maybe it is because he does most of the work so I help him out more than my cousin. The latest round of negotiations seems to have me building a shed more to the yard's specifications rather than mine (hence no vapor barrier - they want the humidity - it helps keep the wooden boats swelled up). They are now suggesting a 40x40 "shed" and they will occupy it alongside me. Also, I can't build the shed over the boat. I need to build the shed and then move the boat in afterwards so that it can be built as tight as possible into the surrounding area. That plan also involves moving my boat twice (once to haul out and once to position inside the shed). Naturally I would have to pay for two moves instead of the normal one-per-season.

This morning I am going to check out some other yards in the area. That should make some interesting family gossip.

If I keep hitting the stone wall I think I will forego the shed and just tarp over with a high ridge pole like I did last year, rebuild the interior instead of the exterior this year, and get more serious about shopping for land where I can store the boat without this hassle.

-Britton

A30_John · Post by **A30_John** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:49 am

Britton,

Last winter I used the ridgepole solution and also built a framework along the sides to keep the tarp off the awlgrip. My ladder went up under the tarp. The space between the tarp and boat created by the framework allowed for good ventilation and clearance when working on the boat.

Also, Tom Young on this forum wrote an article in good Old Boat last year that has some great information. I'm planning to use a canvas tarp per his recommendation. I'm also considering shrink wrapping the frame, but that would be a pretty pricey option.

Sounds like the boatyard is driving a hard bargain! Would they allow you to put down a vapor barrier and then remove it when you're done? They are right, there will be a lot of moisture in the air.. and dripping down on your boat just as you're about to epoxy, varnish, work with sealants, etc.

Post by **dasein668** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:00 am

bcooke wrote: so I help him out more than my cousin.

Wait, wait...

You help him out more than you help your cousin out?

or You help him out more than your cousin helps him out?

Yeah, it sounds like a real peach of a situation... Maybe you would be better off at another yard...

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:10 pm

Do your cousin and his partner actually work on any wooden boats, or are they just thinking it might be a nice clientele to attract?

Skipping the vapor barrier in order to reduce dry-shrinkage in wooden boats is a good theory and all, but in practice it doesn't work, particularly with regard to the structures we're discussing which are really just glorified tents. The ground holds a LOT of moisture. A LOT of moisture will be in the air. A LOT of moisture will be all over everything. As John alluded above, even wooden boats need dry surfaces to take paint. Even wooden boats will be subject to mold growth in a supermoist environment. Even wooden boat owners frown on their tools going rusty in the first week.

There are better ways to combat dry shrinkage. (anyone feel a George Costanza joke coming on?)

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:53 pm

Last winter I used the ridgepole solution and also built a framework along the sides to keep the tarp off the awlgrip. My ladder went up under the tarp. The space between the tarp and boat created by the framework allowed for good ventilation and clearance when working on the boat.

John,

I'm curious about the extra framework you built to give your ridgepole tarp more clearance on the sides. How was that set up? Not that I'm about to start tomorrow, but if I end up doing the deck recore at a place that doesn't allow sheds...

I would plan to do the re-core in sections simply because I don't think the boat would do well with everything removed at once, so a few framing member "interruptions" in the deck might be tolerable. Of course I wouldn't have the stanchions on; not sure if you utilized those or not.

--- R.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:29 am

Okay, this thread is about sheds not my boatyard woes so I will keep this short.

You help him out more than you help your cousin out

Since my cousin runs the office and his partner does most of the grunt work, when I am called in to help move stuff it benefits the partner more than my cousin.

Do your cousin and his partner actually work on any wooden boats, or are they just thinking it might be a nice clientele to attract?

The yard is about 20% wooden. A lot of them are part of my cousin's collection. As customers get fed up and leave he fills up the empty spots with wooden boats that were just too cheap a deal to pass up. I should add that the whole "humidity is good" argument was his not mine.

I did some shopping yesterday and was surprised to have the first place I checked out say "Sure, sheds are no problem here. We have lots of people working on their boats here." They went on to say that a 12 foot width was the maximum which is a bummer. On the other hand, I could do all the work except the hull paint prep I think. Plus, they had real flush toilets on the facility (no overfull porta-potties) and a water spigot and electrical outlet in each storage "bay". The best part was the guy actually tried to sell me and acted like he wanted me to come. It was a novel feeling to be wanted and not to have to grovel and negotiate for everything. If I don't launch in the spring it actually is cheaper too. I am thinking seriously of moving but I am going to miss the colorful characters at my current home...

Mike, I know you used a forklift to set up your frames. Do you think they could be placed manually just standing on deck and using some well placed bracing?

-Britton

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:50 am

I used the forklift as a rolling scaffold only because I happen to have one here on hand. The individual bows are light enough for one person (with good shoulders) to manage.

After the shed blew over, I rebuilt it over the top of the boat, mostly by standing on deck to make the ridge connections. You'll still need something to get you up to the ridge at the very ends of the shed, though.