30 foot classic on eBay cheap in Pacific NW

JonnyBoats · Post by **JonnyBoats** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:01 pm

Take a look at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 4553770769

It is a 30 foot FRP slop built in 1960 (real early classic). Current bid is $1,050.00 with 14 hours to go.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:44 am

I saw that boat and wondered if it might be an Annapolis 30 (Rhodes design). I wish there had been photos of the cockpit. The early year of manufacture does fit.

He's saying the title says "locally built," and he is in Washington state (I belive the Annapolis 30s were built in the Chesapeake area), but I still wonder. Perhaps if it *is* an Annapolis 30 the boat was previously titled on the East Coast, hence "locally built."

I dropped him an e-mail asking about a couple of details, because I thought he might be interested in identifying it for the auction (I'm not interested in purchase, which I mentioned), but I haven't heard back from him.

--- Rachel

Post by **Tim** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:59 am

That boat needs a ton of work. For $1000 or so, OK. The previous time the boat was up for auction she "sold" for $2888...too much, I think.

My question is: does the sale include the cheery-looking guy in the cabin?

Post by **Tim** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:05 am

Rachel wrote:I saw that boat and wondered if it might be an Annapolis 30 (Rhodes design).

The rudder design is quite typical of a Rhodes boat.

And a picture of a confirmed Annapolis 30 seems to look very much like this Ebay boat.

JonnyBoats · Post by **JonnyBoats** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:13 am

That boat needs a ton of work. For $1000 or so, OK.

Well I have heard rumors that there are some who will spend years of their life and tens of thousands of dollars on old boats smalller than this one <smile>
Seriously though, that photo of a confirmed Annapolis 30 is one beautiful boat.

Post by **Tim** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:33 am

JonnyBoats wrote:Well I have heard rumors that there are some who will spend years of their life and tens of thousands of dollars on old boats smalller than this one <smile>

Really? I don't know anyone that foolish...

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:54 pm

They must have snapped the photo of that guy just as he realized how big the project was actually going to be ;-)

I'm a sucker for Rhodes' designs, and I seriously considered that green one you pictured, but in the end it was a bit too much for my budget. I also looked at one in-person that *was* in my price range on the East Coast.

I really like the cabin top design. There's plenty of headroom - at least for me - and I think it looks very sleek without a doghouse. I'm not so keen on the square ports - they seem a bit out of place to me.

The thing that put me off them altogether - maybe it shouldn't have, but I just didn't like it - was the way they did the hull/deck joint. I'm curious to know if anyone knows of any other fiberglass boats done this way. The Annapolis 30s were built in the 1959-1962-ish time frame, so they were pretty early in the fiberglass era.

At any rate, from what I've been able to figure out, the hulls were built over a male mold, so I'm not sure they have gelcoat on the outside (perhaps they do, I'm just not sure). The hull and deck each just have straight edges. In other words the hull just comes up like the side of a shoe-box, and the deck is like a shoe-box top would be if you cut off the lip - in other words, just a "flat" piece of fiberglass.

Then there is a strip of wood that runs the length of the hull/deck joint on the inside (perhaps this would be like a sheer clamp on a wooden boat? I'm not sure), and the deck is fastened to it using the fasteners that hold the wooden toe-rail on. I'm not sure how the hull is bonded to it - I would guess with similar fasteners running horizontally and with the heads concealed in the outer fiberglass of the hull.

From what I've seen, the deck and hull are not glassed together. The Annapolis 30 I looked at had a considerable bit of water running down the inside of the hull from the wooden "joining" strip, and the strip itself had a fair number of soft areas. That's what put me off the boat, really. It just looked like too big a project to me (although, of course, so is a re-core, but you know how it is - some projects seem do-able and others don't, even if it's not all completely logical).

Like a number of other early Rhodes-designed fiberglass boats, the decks have no coring - just fiberglass. The foredeck was a bit flexy, but nothing a few glassed-in stiffeners below couldn't fix.

Another thing I noticed - particularly after looking at a couple of Tritons - was how "slim" the stern was. I mean, it's gorgeous looking, but you open the cockpit lockers and they're tiny!

I was surprised the seller didn't write me back - because if I were him I would have wanted to add some identifying information to the e-Bay ad, but he never did.

Did anyone from here end up with it?

--- Rachel

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:01 pm

Did anyone from here end up with it?

Ooops, I just looked and noticed the auction still has 40 minutes left...

R.

JonnyBoats · Post by **JonnyBoats** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:10 pm

The thing that put me off them altogether - maybe it shouldn't have, but I just didn't like it - was the way they did the hull/deck joint.

I just finished reading Hal Roth's book "How to Sail Around the World". In it he describes his three boats, including his first boat "Whisper", a Spencer 35 built of GRP in 1965. As an aside, I would love to have his particular boat as it seems nearly perfect. His book is not bad either, highly recommended.

He too had problems with the hull/deck joint and leaks. He ended up taking off his toerail and glassing over the joint six (6) strips of 10 ounce fiberglass cloth varying from 1/2 to 8 inches wide. He states this "added about 1/4 inch of fiberglass material. This sealed and strengthened the hull-to-deck joint on the outside and a total thickness of 1/2 inch with no holes and no cracks."

In liew of replacing the toerail he installed a 1 by 4 inch teak bulwark 34 feet long set 3.4 of an inch above the deck. He reports "The bulkwark was a complete success because it was higher and because the 3/4 inch space underneath allowed any water that landed on deck to run off at once. The decks were much drier than previously. The space under the bulwarks appears to have reduced some of the force of boarding waves that might otherwise have smashed the wooden strips."

He sailed this boat for 20 years before selling it to enter the BOC Challange (a round the world race for single handlers). This gentleman has logged 200,00 sea miles, so I believe he knows what he is talking about.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:38 pm

John,

Oh, I totally agree with what you said re: Hal's method. I wouldn't question the strength of a boat that had that modification, done properly. That's what I would have done if I'd bought the Annapolis 30. I just wasn't in the mood to tackle that project and all the attendant fairing to the topsides. Not that it's so much different than other projects; but for some reason it put me off -- just felt too "big."

And, as usual, the seller was asking a lot for a boat that needed such major work ($7000). The one on e-Bay definitely looked like it had potential at closer to $1000. Actually, a bit of fairing on the topsides would be a good thing; perhaps because of the male-mold construction method, the topsides on those boats tends to be a bit wavey looking.

I do like the raised bulwark - I think they're great and very functional. I've seen some nice bronze stanchion bases that had brackets welded on for holding one.

JonnyBoats · Post by **JonnyBoats** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:52 pm

I do like the raised bulwark - I think they're great and very functional. I've seen some nice bronze stanchion bases that had brackets welded on for holding one.

That is exactly what Roth did. He had 5/32 x 3 1/4 x 3 1/4 Everdur plates made and then welded to the outside of each bronze stanchion base. He has a nice photo on page 83 of his book. The stanchions were spaced at 6 foot intervals along the deck.

Post by **Tim** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:14 pm

JonnyBoats wrote:As an aside, I would love to have his particular boat as it seems nearly perfect. His book is not bad either, highly recommended.

You're in luck. Whisper has been for sale on Yacht World for some time now, probably because her price is high and the boat has fallen into some disrepair; certainly the boat lacks the sparkle seen in the photos in Roth's various books.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... slim=quick&

JonnyBoats · Post by **JonnyBoats** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:38 pm

Whisper has been for sale on Yacht World

Just looked at the listing and see "Adler Barbour 12V refrigeration" amoung other things. Sounds rather like the anathma of Ross.

Also I see much of the gear has been stripped off her. For example Roth used to carry two (2) 45 lb CQR, one 65 lb Luke Fisherman, and two (2) 35 lb Danforth anchors. She now has just 2 anchors. To just replace the original ground tackle would cost more than a few dollars.

Also I see that Roth's beloved Dickinson Pacific stove which he once ran continously for seven months without shutting it off and which he states "the stove performed flawlessly for 15 years, and we used it for both cooking and heating" is gone. It has been replaced with a "2 burner propane Coleman stove".

But on the other hand it is now being marketed as having a "Stereo" and "ACCOMMODATIONS For 6" so perhaps it will appeal to those who buy the current crop of wide body sailing "condos" <smile>

Has anyone seen this boat in person?

PS: If I were rich, I would probably buy this boat and then hire Tim to do his magic on her. There is now doubt that the end product would be pricless.

Post by **Tim** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:07 am

Considering the Roths haven't owned this boat for 20 years (or thereabouts), it's not surprising that things may have changed a bit.

Nonetheless, she is a well-proven, customized boat, and, with her cabin trunk and cockpit modifications, she is much more attractive (I believe) than normal Spencer 35s. I would enjoy seeing her, but I have a feeling her asking price is extremely "optimistic", to say the least. Considering that photos tend to look better than the real article, my anticipation is that her condition is quite poor.

I can see the fading, black moisture stains, and lack of care on the interior woodwork from here, and can even capture the neglected old-boat smell if I try...

I always compare the saloon shots from the ad (she has literally been on Yachtworld for several years) with the back cover shot from Two Against Cape Horn, which shows a warm, cozy interior in perfect condition. Now, the similar angle seen in the advertisement just looks sad and dismal, like most project boats from the 60s.