Boat Yards!

[cdawgs65]

Has anybody ever felt that when you go into a boatyard, "and I'm not talking all boatyards", that they look at you funny, listen to half or less on what your telling them and you walk away with a weird feeling. I have been in a few boatyards thru Ct. and Mass. and the feeling is always the same. It is almost like they can't be bothered. I have to remind myself that I'm the customer, I'm paying the bill! What happened to customer service!! I know everyones busy, I'm busy, time is very important, I get it!! I was in a yard once and kept being put towards the bottom of the to do list, weeks went by and nothing which turned into months, I had paid my bill for my slip and everything. Maybe it was the amount of power boats in the yard! Enuff said, Whew!!

[Ceasar Choppy]

LOL! And I though only the yards down here on the Chesapeake were that way! Doesn't matter if you pay your bill. It takes a long time to develop a relationship with a yard (in many ways like a car mechanic) and even then there is no guarantee.

Sometimes, if you tip them at haul and splash, I've found it helps although it is not guaranteed. I do everything I can to avoid the stereotype most yard people have of sailboaters being cheap and picky SOBs. But then, I try and rely on the yard crew only as a last resort.

I've come to the conclusion that most (not all) in this business haven't a clue what customer service is because many don't see it as a job at all (otherwise they would work in an office). The flip side of that is, however, that many customers are cheap SOBs, and don't know enough to understand that the yard can't work miracles.

[Tim]

It seems lost on many businesses that if they treat the customer well, with respect, with interest, with appropriate enthusiasm, and without insufferable nickel-and-dimeing, the customer will probably treat them well in return, and be satisfied and inclined to return in the future.

Likewise, it's lost on many customers that if they treat the business well, with respect, and without insufferable nitpicking or cheapness, they'll likely be treated well in return, and be welcomed back in the future.

The upscaling of boatyards, with its inherent cost, is largely responsible, in my opinion, for the degradation in service. At the root of this is the rabid upscaling of waterfront communities in general, with its inherent costs and exponential increases in property values.

Suddenly, it became all about money as yards struggled to meet challenging--and expensive--cleanliness and appearance standards now required by ritzy waterfront areas: fancy new buildings and facilities went up, but labor prices also went up. Yards became became big businesses, often associated with numerous other yards or, worse, with condo complexes, and with bloated payrolls full of inexperienced seasonal hires, rather than small, locally-run places operated by knowledgeable people who were in it for the love of boats rather than dollars.

When it becomes all about money, all hope is lost. And so it goes.

I had better stop now. :<)

[Ceasar Choppy]

What gets me though, is that if its "all about money," they should be working to make more money through decent customer service.

Then again, at least around here, there is a captive audience, much like buying popcorn at a movie theater. If they piss off one person, there are enough others who will willingly take their place and simply put up with it.

[Tim]

Then again, at least around here, there is a captive audience, much like buying popcorn at a movie theater. If they piss off one person, there are enough others who will willingly take their place and simply put up with it.

Exactly. You hit the nail on the head there, I think.

[Jason K]

My poor experience with a yard was documented in the J/30 thread. My general experience is that, in general, boat yards provide poor service at exorbitant prices.

I could say the same about boat brokers (with notable exceptions).

As an aside, I was speaking with the owner of the J/30 that went into the yard right after I escaped. He also went in for a bottom job. The yard folk were sanding away on the bottom and sanded until they exposed core. Can't say I didn't warn him...

[cdawgs65]

I had my Triton picked up by the boatyard and brought to the yard, so they get me as a boat hauling customer and a yard and slip customer. Well without working out a schedule with me after the boat was in the yard, and I was actually working on the mast at the time next to the boat, they came by with the Travel lift and moved right in to pick her up! Of course I started telling them that I wasn't ready and they said, well we either put it in now or your gonna have to wait, and we can't guarantee when you'll go in. SOO!! off she went to get her keel wet, and yes they did step her, was I done with the mast? NOO!! Well we'll get to those halyards when we can!! And did I mention that my slip or should I say the many that I had that summer, " everytime that I went out they had a new boat in it when I came back" so up to the office I went and to hear, well where are you now, that's fine stay there!! Just to be used as a 28' 6'' fender! That's why I LOVE moorings!!

[Allen]

Interesting perspective. My experience with the marinas and boatyards in New Mexico, while not without a few bumps, has seemingly been much better than you guys seem to have had. I have never had them move my boat from her slip. And while in the boatyard I had an overall good experience, even considering Old Joe had his grumpy days, he always took good care of me and KAHOLEE. Guess I'm in for some new experiences when I start sailing the east coast.

[jollyboat]

When working with any business it is important to get what you are paying for in writing. Most yards, for better or worse, will write up service contracts which often double as receipts. In the second to last post I was surprised to read that the behavior of the yard was tolerated to any degree. A paying customer, who is paid up to date, has "rights" of sorts which are covered and protected by the many Consumer Protection Agencys as well as federal and state laws - basically consumers have a right to fair treament, products and services which they have paid for - otherwise - law suit. Being in the marine trade myself, we make it our mission to be sure that our customes are satisfied with the "deal" at hand and are pleased with the way we went about our business with them. Customer service today is EVERYTHING! If you are taking someones money in the marine trades, you better bend over backwards to be sure that your customer is happy. This is afterall - show business - is it not?
Boatyards not providing this will only suffer in both the short and long run.
I will add that some yards are geared up for certain size and type of boats more than others. If you are Triton owner or of another smaller classic 5-10 thousand dollar sailboat and find yourself in a " million dollar power boat yard" well maybe that is cue to find another yard. Just like my not bringing my Saab to a Chevy mechanic. I guess.

[Ceasar Choppy]

When working with any business it is important to get what you are paying for in writing. Most yards, for better or worse, will write up service contracts which often double as receipts.

This sounds good in theory and may be the way to go with some yards... but I gotta tell you, around here, if you ask for something in writing you will get one of the following reactions:

1.) a bill that is >10% higher
2.) delay delay delay
3.) "What, you don't trust us?"
4.) just a dark look coupled by one of the other three options that makes you wonder if they have it out for you.

This is generally not true for something over a job worth >$2K.

Agree about the Volvo in a Chevy shop, but then again, I find the above reactions more common in a Chevy shop. But I also agree that you have to make a stink when you get poor treatment as that described above.

[Figment]

Two quick observations.

1) This obviuosly cannot universally apply to the "seasonal" help, but the year-round staff at these yards are not idiots and they're not blind. They see who's doing what on their boats, and HOW they do it. They know who knows their stuff and who's just a hacker. They know who keeps their tools and other debris straight, and who makes a total circus of the place every time they show up. These observations form their opinions of which boats are worth their Genuine Effort, and which they can backburner.

2) Cash is the universal lubricant. Tip well, tip often, tip consistently. With a smile.

[Tim]

You shouldn't have to "tip" to get good service: it's their job to provide the service.

If you feel that someone has gone above and beyond the normal call of duty to be helpful in a certain situation, that would reasonably call for appropriate recognition from anyone who isn't a cheapskate. Fair enough. But to my way of thinking, it ought to be after extraordinary service has been provided, not before. It should be a bonus, not a bribe, in my opinion.

I'd prefer to be respected as a good customer because I was a good customer, not because I pressed the flesh. But that's just me. I tend to object to these little facets of society today as a general rule anyway, and still naively feel that good service should be the norm, not the exception. Silly me.

[Ceasar Choppy]

The rule of thumb I've always used (be it boatyard or restaurant) is:

TIP: "to insure promptness" -- only applies if I'm a regular (for the next time) or, if the service is extraordinary.

[Rachel]

I feel the same way you do Tim. I also agree that Figment's method probably works well, and is "real world" in many cases, but it still bugs me and I stubbornly refuse to take part (in the "pre-job" tipping).

And while it's true that there are some dreadful yards out there (one nearly dropped/crushed my Meridian a while back, as the guy on the Travelift carried out an argument with the yard helper on the ground), there are still some in which integrity, craftsmanship, and communication are the basic tenets (not that you all don't know that, but I still wanted to say it).

Rachel

[Figment]

I didn't mean to suggest that one should start passing out twenties like chewing gum from the moment of the boat's arrival. After a service is provided, however, a little appreciation goes a long way.
Obviously, this is a small component of a much larger relationship-building effort, and isn't going to turn a mismanaged yard into a well-oiled machine. It certainly can't turn a crappy painter into Picasso.

It's a fact of humanity, however: attitude matters. These guys are generally not highly paid, yet the work is generally unpleasant to say the least, and often quite strenuous. A guy in that position WILL remember the boat that got him a decent tip on a flawless launch day. That memory will inform the guy's attitude on haulout day. And so on.

[ramble]
There is a saying in the construction industry: "ultimately, it all comes down to a handshake."
Clients pay me a tidy sum to publish construction documents that go on for hundreds of pages about standards of workmanship, material quality, coordination between different parties, etc. It's all in black and white, all in legalese, so rock-solid it never gets near a courtroom. There are, however at least a dozen different people in the chain of command between those documents and the guy in the field swinging the hammer.
The guy with the hammer doesn't know or care about the contracts or specifications. None of that stuff can touch him. He's working for $20/hour on this job, he'll be working for $20/hour on the next, they're all the same to him.
I meet this guy in the field, he shows me how this and that don't seem to be coming together properly. We talk about how this is important and that is less important, we come up with a solution, and it's done on a handshake.
That interaction impacts his attitude. He's either going to apply his best efforts to get it done properly, or just do it well enough to not cause a huge stink, depending on his attitude.
As the industry has not yet found a way to specify the appropriate attitude in contract documents, it ultimately all comes down to a handshake.
[/ramble]

[Tim]

...it ultimately all comes down to a handshake.

Hear, hear! When people are honest (on both sides of the agreement) and hard workers/good payers (i.e. the proper attitude and commitment), this is truly all you need. Why is this so elusive?

I didn't mean to suggest that one should start passing out twenties like chewing gum from the moment of the boat's arrival.

How about passing out chewing gum like chewing gum, then?

[cdawgs65]

WOW! Well I have to agree with almost everyone on all there comments except for Jollyboat, Ya kinda made me out to be an idiot because your in the Marine Industry and you think that I'm not. Yes, you maybe protecting your lively hood by your comments but you should not be so blind! I didn't go into a MEGA YACHTYARD and drop my Triton. I can't be the only one this ever happened to, I'm smart enough to know the difference between Chevy's and Saab's, but thanks for drawing that picture for me. And yes getting a lawyer and causing all kinds of problems is one way to go if YOU have that kinda of time, money but I and a lot of other people don't want to spend the money or time because we have lives, families, and so fourth! Also to point out that maybe I could have been caught like a deer in the headlights, thinking that this is a boatyard this can't be happening, but again it did, and I just feel from your comments that since you seem so above this " because you work in the Marine Industry" that it probably happens around you more than not. And to the great people that I have come in contact with and worked with and was taught many things I thank you, including Tim Lackey, who I've never met, but have learned so much since Glissando, his websites an so on, not to mention other boat owners on this website, thanks again Tim,

[Tim]

[Moderator's Authoritative Voice]

I think everyone's had their chance for an opinion on this one now, so let's not post any more lest things get unpleasant.

I feel the comments as already posted deserve to stand and are appropriate, if becoming heated, but further responses may be unnecessary and will probably end up going in an undesirable direction. That said, I'm not locking the thread, either. Let your conscience be your guide.

Thanks.

[/Moderator's Authoritative Voice]