Glissando Post-Storm

Anything goes, as long as it falls under the general forum protocol and rules.
Post Reply
User avatar
Tim
Shipwright Extraordinaire
Posts: 5708
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
Boat Name: Glissando
Boat Type: Pearson Triton
Location: Whitefield, ME
Contact:

Glissando Post-Storm

Post by Tim »

I finally got out to visit the boat today, thanks to Nathan stealing his in laws' inflatable.

You guys will be amazed with what I discovered. Read on...

When I got to the boat, I discovered that the port pendant had indeed ended up flipped on top of the anchor platform, as I had begun to surmise from staring at it from shore.

Here is what I first saw up at the bow; the port pendant had ended up strung between the two rollers and over the end of the platform at about the centerline:
Image



The pendant had of course chafed where it ran over the platform edge, as seen here:
Image



The platform was slightly worn under the pendant; no big deal.

What was a bigger deal, however, became noticeable a few minutes later. First, though, I noticed that the port chock had been pulled out of the toerail, leaving bent screws but only minimal toerail damage. You can see the chock still hanging on in the very first photo in the series above. This is a close-up of the toerail beneath.
Image



The pendant must have been pulled sharply upwards beneath the ear of the chock to rip it out in this manner. More impressively, the heavy solid bronze chock was actually bent in the center, pulled slightly upwards before or while it was being ripped free.
Image



The port pendant's outer sheating was badly chafed, but upon inspection I observed that the main structural inner core was completely intact. I am 100% sold on these high-strength Yale pendants. The line is still usable as is, though of course I will replace it immediately.
Image



On the starboard side, the line was in good condition, and well-protected by the chafe gear that comes with the Yale lines. The chafe gear was worn through in one area, so I turned it and replaced the line in the chock. The slight chafe can be seen here:
Image



OK, I've kept you waiting for the real news. Both Nathan and I were stunned by this discovery: the 3/8" thick stainless steel plate that provides the guts of the anchor platform was bent on the starboard side! This first became apparent by noticing that the starboard roller was pulled up slightly at the aft end, as seen here:
Image


The starboard roller was also slightly deformed. Thank God the anchor hadn't been in place during all of this.
Image


The wooden part of the platform was cracked near the centerline, and pulled away from the stainless plate a small amount by the bending force:
Image



Here, in a shot taken from the dinghy, you can see the crack clearly between the two rollers, and also how the wooden part of the platform has separated from the stainless on the port side (right side of the photo):
Image



Here is another view:
Image


The forces that must have been at play here to bend that stainless (which is only cantilevered out less than a foot) are mind-boggling. Clearly, what happened is that one (or both) mooring line(s) became caught above the platform when the bow plunged down, and then pulled severely downward at a sharp angle as the bow rose on the next crest. Given the way the starboard roller was deformed, I hypothesize that the starboard pendant actually caught that, bent the roller and platform, and then pulled free (since it was not still caught there when I saw it; nor did it spend much time fouled there, as there was little or no chafe to be seen).

Obviously, the port pendant remained stuck in the center, and may have done all this damage itself, but I feel that the other side must have been at play as well.

Otherwise, the boat was in fine shape. My brand-new pickup buoy disappeared off the foredeck, and a few things had shuffled around in the galley, but no big deal. The CQR anchor, which I had stored on the sole in the head--tied to the sink pump foot pedal and wedged in place with pillows and other gear--had not moved in the slightest.
Image

I reinstalled the port chock with two new screws, simply moving it about an inch for clear material, and moved the port mooring line back into the chock. Later, I'll properly bed the chock and so forth, but I just needed it back in place.

Image
---------------------------------------------------
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
dasein668
Boateg
Posts: 1637
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 9:09 am
Boat Name: Dasein
Boat Type: Pearson Triton 668
Location: Portland, Maine
Contact:

Post by dasein668 »

'Tain't Falmouth grand?
tartan30cirrus
Topside Painter
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:15 pm
Location: Casco Bay-Portland, Maine

Post by tartan30cirrus »

Come down to South Portland, as we call my end of the field, and have some Dark n' Stormies on the first rollicking SWer day where 3 footers are not impossible. You feel like you are on a bucking bronco. Boys, when we drop the pendant and sail right off the mooring, and the repairs are made, this will be but a memory. Albeit, a damn impressive and educational memory.

Cheers.

I will be sending pics out of my fun tomorrow.
Clinton B. Chase
Tartan 30 #388 Cirrus
Portland, Maine
User avatar
Rachel
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 3044
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:59 pm

Glissando

Post by Rachel »

Tim,

Glad to see Glissando looking good after all that. Thanks for posting the photos and information about what happened to your gear. Amazing forces at work there, especially on that ultra-beefy anchor platform.

Here's to a pleasant summer's sailing from here on in ...


--- Rachel
dasein668
Boateg
Posts: 1637
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 9:09 am
Boat Name: Dasein
Boat Type: Pearson Triton 668
Location: Portland, Maine
Contact:

Post by dasein668 »

tartan30cirrus wrote:I will be sending pics out of my fun tomorrow.
Tim and I buzzed down by you while we were out today, and I think you can be thankful too! From what damage we could see it looked like it could have been alot worse. Suck-o, but not nearly as bad as it could have been.

Have you determined if you have any leaking at the hull-deck joint?
Figment
Damned Because It's All Connected
Posts: 2847
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:32 am
Boat Name: Triton
Boat Type: Grand Banks 42
Location: L.I. Sound

Post by Figment »

Is that red-handled thing on the lanyard a knife?

Impressive forces, indeed. Following down the line, one would assume that for that much force to develop at the boat, the mooring chain must've been bar-taut. It says a lot for the holding power of your mooring anchor.
How much water are you guys in? What's the scope?
JonnyBoats
Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:54 pm
Location: Wiscasset, ME
Contact:

Post by JonnyBoats »

When I got to the boat, I discovered that the port pendant had indeed ended up flipped on top of the anchor platform, as I had begun to surmise from staring at it from shore.
Have you considered replacing your chocks with lifeboat chocks (the top is closed in so the line can not lift out)?
John Tarbox
S/V Altair, a LeComte NorthEast 38
http://www.boatmaine.us
User avatar
Tim
Shipwright Extraordinaire
Posts: 5708
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
Boat Name: Glissando
Boat Type: Pearson Triton
Location: Whitefield, ME
Contact:

Post by Tim »

Actually, I think the only reason the line came out of the chock in the first place is because the force (after the line ended up on top of the platform) ripped the chock out of the toerail. The lines don't routinely bounce out of these chocks, and I have found a line fouled on the roller in the past--but still ensconced in the chock.

I am confident that the line exited the chock only after it became fouled on the platform (thereby ripping the chock from its mounting), so the chock was an effect, not a cause.
Figment wrote:Is that red-handled thing on the lanyard a knife?
Yes indeed, Mr. Eagle Eyes! I love those inexpensive (yet incredibly effective) serrated fisherman's knives, and scatter them all over the boat. I buy them by the case.
Figment wrote:one would assume that for that much force to develop at the boat, the mooring chain must've been bar-taut. It says a lot for the holding power of your mooring anchor.
How much water are you guys in? What's the scope?
Absolutely. The height of the winds that night happened to occur at high tide--and an astronomical high tide at that, plus some extra thanks to the winds and storm. (The highest winds always seem to coincide with high tide. Nature is an amazing force.)

This mooring is in 30' of water at low tide; 40' at a normal high. There is at least 60' of chain, though I am not sure exactly how much is down there--probably more than 60 overall. The chain is 3/4", secured to a 500# mushroom that hasn't been touched since 1980. I never have concerns about the mooring itself; it's always the lines and boat hardware that worry me. And the "other" boats.

Given the strength of the winds, the chain was surely stretched out to its full extent, with minimal extra thanks to the higher-than-normal tides. The boat is now quite close to a neighboring (empty) mooring, a mooring that is usually further away; this indicates that my chain has been stretched downwind. Once the wind shifts direction, things will eventually settle back into their appropriate places.

I awoke this morning to the deafening sound of...nothing. No wind. Ahh...what a pleasure.

I wish I could feel comfortable that we won't see this weather again this season, but until the pattern changes, we're at risk for more nor'easters. Let's hope we don't see them.
---------------------------------------------------
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
User avatar
Tim
Shipwright Extraordinaire
Posts: 5708
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
Boat Name: Glissando
Boat Type: Pearson Triton
Location: Whitefield, ME
Contact:

Post by Tim »

None of us here escaped unscathed, but I'm sure we're all thankful that we are dealing only with cosmetic repairs, not significant damage or the loss of a boat.

The first nice day and sailing will quickly erase the worst of these memories.
---------------------------------------------------
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
grampianman
Master Varnisher
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:21 pm
Location: South West Florida
Contact:

Sympathies and expressions of sorrow.

Post by grampianman »

I'm again sorry to hear about the damage caused to the various vessels, but am glad to hear the relatively little damage versus the what could have happened!

Time to go out with the bottle of Mount Gay, give Neptune a liberal libation and whilst out there, have one for the skipper.

I'm a superstitious sot at best, and always believe the gods need be appeased.

Cheers,
Ian
Figment
Damned Because It's All Connected
Posts: 2847
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:32 am
Boat Name: Triton
Boat Type: Grand Banks 42
Location: L.I. Sound

Post by Figment »

Your mooring has been in place for 25 years!!?
Assuming you've replaced the chain every few years or so, that still seems impressive bordering on foolish compared to standard practice down here. Most municipalities around here require that moorings be pulled, inspected/serviced, and reset every three to five years.

I've always thought that this policy made some sense from a loss-prevention point of view, but if you can go 25 years then perhaps I should start listening to the grumblers who claim that the rule exists solely so that the municipality can continually adjust the locations to pack more and more moorings (fees collected) into the harbor.
User avatar
Tim
Shipwright Extraordinaire
Posts: 5708
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
Boat Name: Glissando
Boat Type: Pearson Triton
Location: Whitefield, ME
Contact:

Post by Tim »

Moorings work best when dug into the bottom, like all anchors; they are effective not just because of their dead weight, but also because of beind buried in the bottom. Pulling up the anchor eliminates this excellent long-term effect. Anchors buried in harbor mud don't degrade, particularly; the mud protects the hardware from rusting. This is also one important reason why winter sticks should be installed that allow all the chain to drop to the bottom.

The chain is inspected and replaced as needed; I never err on the cheap side in this area. Inspections are required every other year, but the inspections are carried out by divers. Some of the local mooring service companies do lift the anchors for inspection, but I don't like this technique--and when they do this, the moorings frequently end up reset in the wrong place.

No, I like having my anchor well buried, and in a consistent location. Foolish? No. There is sound judgement and experience here, and I don't mean mine.

All things vary with location, but around here this is a common thing. It's not the mushrooms that fail; it's things like swivels and chain. Digging up a well-set anchor every year or two only asks for it to be more susceptible to dragging (which some moorings here do with regularity).

I should add that as far as I know the mooring has not been pulled, but I could be wrong about that. I've only been taking care of it since 1998, when my dad gave it to me.
---------------------------------------------------
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
Figment
Damned Because It's All Connected
Posts: 2847
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:32 am
Boat Name: Triton
Boat Type: Grand Banks 42
Location: L.I. Sound

Post by Figment »

That's part of the most common argument against this practice.... that the anchor is required to be pulled just when it finally becomes completely buried. It's a completely valid argument, in my opinion.

The other edge of the sword, which is probably just as valid when applied to certain people, is that the requirement for the harbormaster to lay eyes and hands on the mooring equipment every few years prevents slackers from using things like engine blocks and concrete rubble as anchors.
The Good Goose
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 6:21 pm

Post by The Good Goose »

Tim

Read an article a few years back where it was argued that double pendants of the same length caused excessive boat motion in high winds. The author felt that It was better to have one pendant act as the main rode and the second left longer to act as a back up if the first failed. He observed that on equal length rodes as one tightened and stretched the boat was then snapped around by the other rode tightening producing much more motion then on a boat with a single rode. It might be worth considering or testing in breezy wavy conditions. Sorry I can't remember the author or publication.

I don't have any experience with this as I have always been in extremely protected mooring fields so have stuck with a single rode. The author seemed to know what he was talking about so I thought I would pass it along.

Sorry for your bad luck. Hope your sailing soon.

Brock Richardson
User avatar
Tim
Shipwright Extraordinaire
Posts: 5708
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
Boat Name: Glissando
Boat Type: Pearson Triton
Location: Whitefield, ME
Contact:

Post by Tim »

Hmm, interesting theory. Most (but not all) of the moorings here with double pendants seem to use equal lengths, but now I'll have to start watching and comparing various setups to see what does what. Sounds like a good reason to spend more time on the boat this summer!
---------------------------------------------------
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
tartan30cirrus
Topside Painter
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:15 pm
Location: Casco Bay-Portland, Maine

Post by tartan30cirrus »

I was just talking to a guy on the launch yesterday about double pendants and wondered why he had one about a foot longer than the other pendent.

Cheers.
Clinton B. Chase
Tartan 30 #388 Cirrus
Portland, Maine
The Good Goose
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 6:21 pm

Post by The Good Goose »

Tim
just had a mooring experience in heavy wind and waves similar to yours. I was on a mooring on South Hero Island on the open to the lake side of the island. We were renting for a week and I brought my boat over. There was no chafing gear on the double pendant so I was concerned but decided it would probably be ok.

After four days of mild conditions the wind picked up and I thought I would go rig some sort of gear. When I got to the dinghy the boat was hobby horsing so bad I was nervous to go out to it. Bow was sometimes digging into the waves and the swimladder was being lifted out of the water on the stern. I tried to row out but the boat was upwind and the sea was about 4 feet so I chickend out. about twelve hours later of these same conditions I saw through binoculars the first strand of nylon on the first pendant let loose. About three hours later I saw the second pendant was parting and the first was down to one strand. I got on a life jacket and was going to swim out. there were breaks of 30 seconds or so between the hobby horseing so I figured I could grab the ladder in a lull and get aboard.

I was screwing my courage up for the jump in when I saw the boat break free. Much to my suprise the boat did not go down wind but sailed off at about 100 degrees to the wind. It was around twenty with gust to twenty five I would guess. Steady whitecaps a little spray being kicked up big waves. The boat was now downwind enough I thought I could make it to her in the dinghy. I was surprised how stable the dink was in the waves and was able to make pretty good time twoards the sailing away boat. I got out to it in about five minutes and by timing the waves and working around to the leeward side get aboard. I first aproached twoards the aft quater but seeing the counter slam down once in a big wave convinced me to try amidships. I don't believe I've ever stowed the oars and gotten aboard a boat quicker.

I opened the seacock and the engine fired right up. It's quite a lost feeling watching a boat you've worked so hard on sail away by itself. I was lucky being upwind from the boat. If I was downwind I would have never been able to row into the wind to get it. Lesson learned from now on I will always install some kind of chafing gear. I think I will also start carrying a mooring pendant. Where did you get your Yale cordage one from Tim?

I was able to motor back to my mooring area about 7 miles away. The wind and waves were such that I could only make 2.5 knots into the wind but I knew I could always put up a sail if need be. It was a happy ending to a scary few minutes.

Watching the force the boat put on the pendant was incredible. The boat would rise up until the bow was six or seven feet above the water and then plunge and bury itself over and over again. I think the scope on the mooring was too short so this exacerbated the situation. We used to use Destroyer link chain in CT on our moorings and I think twentyfeet of destroyer link and thirty feet of chain would be about right for this mooring in 12 feet of water. I think it would have had a damping effect on the hobbyhorsing. The wind was not so strong but the wave action was incredible.

Brock
User avatar
Tim
Shipwright Extraordinaire
Posts: 5708
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
Boat Name: Glissando
Boat Type: Pearson Triton
Location: Whitefield, ME
Contact:

Post by Tim »

Brock,

Hamilton Marine carries the Yale pendants, as do other suppliers, I'm sure. Or you can get one through me if you want; I get them from Kellogg Marine (wholesale).

I am very glad to hear that you were able to save the boat with no problems (or injuries)! That must have been an awful feeling watching her break loose.

One thing I have noticed with Tritons is that they tend to hobbyhorse badly in wakes or regular seas, and often set up with a sort of pendulum motion that can increase with each cycle. This is particularly true with weight in the ends--people in the cockpit, or anchors forward, or a combination of all. This may be a relatively unique characteristic that exacerbates the already-bad motion in a seaway, and might be responsible for the pendant problems that seem to occur. Your observations seem to tie in with this.

Glad to hear all is well!
---------------------------------------------------
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
Noah
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:17 pm
Location: Burlington, vt
Contact:

Post by Noah »

South Hero on Lake Champlain? I'm glad things are ok and you got back onto the boat to save her.

A couple of years ago my Hinckley came loose, but it turns out I dragged the whole anchor etc, across Shelburne Bay. A good bit of damage, but nothing that couldn't get fixed. I rent the mooring, and it turned out that the very burried mushroom was much smaller than both the mooring renter and the diver thought. It has now been replaced with a 5000lb block, which shouldn't go anywhere.
I want a shop!
The Good Goose
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 6:21 pm

Post by The Good Goose »

Yes on Lake Champlain. I keep the boat in malletts bay at the Malletts Bay Boat Club. Her name is Good Goose.


Brock
The Good Goose
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 6:21 pm

Post by The Good Goose »

Yes on Lake Champlain. I keep the boat in malletts bay at the Malletts Bay Boat Club. Her name is Good Goose.


Brock
Figment
Damned Because It's All Connected
Posts: 2847
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:32 am
Boat Name: Triton
Boat Type: Grand Banks 42
Location: L.I. Sound

Post by Figment »

YIKES!!!

That's one whale of a tale, Brock! Luck was smiling on you that day, for sure.

I'm glad the tale had such a happy and educational ending.
Noah
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:17 pm
Location: Burlington, vt
Contact:

Post by Noah »

Brock, if I see you out there I will give a wave. I'm heading up to Plattsburg for the Mayors cup this weekend. We will use the Hinckley as a support boat for our team. We race a Melges 24, and the Hinckley makes an easy job of towning that little boat around either under sail, or power. Last year under power we pulled the Melges at 6.9 knots. Knot bad (pun intended) for an 18hp diesel in a 16,000 lb boat.
I want a shop!
The Good Goose
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 6:21 pm

Post by The Good Goose »

See you there Noah. Our boat is light grey almost white sail number 522. I'll keep an eye out for the Hinckley and say hi between races.

Brock
Post Reply