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do not know if you all are following the open 70's as they race, but they have just started the leg where they go from cape town to melbourne. these are monster fast mono hulls, fully crewed and with canting keels. The virtual spectator sounds good but I am in the MAC universe and the program will not work on my computer with my level of skill.
the link:

http://www.volvooceanrace.org/index.aspx?bhcp=1

robert

You have to love the concept - those boats are at the razor's edge. I do think they rely too heavily on mechanical and electronic assistance though.

I really like the Vendee Globe/BOC concepts though. There is no way I'd even wistfully consider racing - but the around alone scheme, particularly non stop and through the Southern Ocean a la Vendee Globe - has to capture the imagination of any sailor. If you haven't read it, check out Godforsaken Sea by (I think) Derek Lundy. It really captures the spirit of the high tech/ high endurance ocean race.

The big problem with the VOR boats is that they seem to have major reliability problems and structural deficiencies. And they haven't even reached the higher latitudes yet...

Of course, I exist in the plastic classic world. They worry about canting keels and I spent the morning debating whether to buy a Windex or a few strings of yarn (went with the Windex - talk about high tech! Cape Horn, here I come).

I always prefer the string, but here in WI we have to lower our mast during the winter becase the water gets hard. I have yet to meet someone that hasn't had the windex thing break. It also makes my neck sore to look up at it all the time.

I had a friend who sailed wooden schooners as a kid with his parents. It had no motor. He always said (and I have taken aout 25% of his approach) he has a wooden bucket mentality- if you sh*t in a wooden bucket, it won't break or clog as sea. Things have changed now though, hopefully for the better. I think that the dept of Natural Resources would likely frown on dumping sewage in the lakes.

How do they keep those canting keels from falling off?

E

#218 wrote: I do think they rely too heavily on mechanical and electronic assistance though.

I guess that's just a sign of the times. Sailboat racing is now a high-tech enterprise.

What is too bad, I think, is the employment of expensive weather routers by the teams with the most bloated corporate budgets. Obviously the best weather information can and will have a positive effect on the boat's performance over the race. It's one thing to benefit from better preparation, or better design, or better crew, or better sails; but when one has an outside influence during the course of the race, it somehow seems wrong.

As long as there have been radios, sailors have been looking for weather information beyond their field of vision. I don't have any problem with the racers using all means at their disposal, such as weather fax, Internet, and so forth, but the private (and expensive) weather routing services used by the top boats seems a little like cheating.

Others have said--and I agree with this concept--that the race organizers should provide excellent up-to-date weather information to all boats in the fleet, and disallow the use of private routing services. This would level the playing field; how the boats used this information would of course have an effect on their performance, bringing the skill back to the sailors on the boat rather than some shoreside geek.

#218 wrote:The big problem with the VOR boats is that they seem to have major reliability problems and structural deficiencies. And they haven't even reached the higher latitudes yet...

The boats are certainly on the edge of the structural ability required to sail through the high latitudes. Of course, pushing the envelope is what these guys do, and the R&D and real-world results from the construction and racing of these and other high-tech boats benefits the boatbuilding industry as a whole, eventually, as the technology and lessons learned trickle down.

These boats are designed for one thing, and one thing only: to go fast fast fast. It's not just about beating the other guy anymore; it's about seeing just how fast one can make these boats go around the world. People are always pushing the limits--fast cars, motorcycles, extreme sports, flying...these sailors are no different.

Frankly, I'm more amazed that any of the boats make it around intact! More power to them. I don't feel bad when any of the boats suffer damage, as everyone in the race signed on knowing full well what the stakes were. If they want to take serious risks for the adreneline rush of going 30 knots down a wave, then have at it!

daysailor17 wrote:How do they keep those canting keels from falling off?

Quite often, they don't!

I use both a windex at the top and yarn in the lower shrouds. I have seen a difference between the two (and I am not talking about when the sails are up and the slot effect is working)

-Britton

What is too bad, I think, is the employment of expensive weather routers by the teams with the most bloated corporate budgets. Obviously the best weather information can and will have a positive effect on the boat's performance over the race. It's one thing to benefit from better preparation, or better design, or better crew, or better sails; but when one has an outside influence during the course of the race, it somehow seems wrong.

As long as there have been radios, sailors have been looking for weather information beyond their field of vision. I don't have any problem with the racers using all means at their disposal, such as weather fax, Internet, and so forth, but the private (and expensive) weather routing services used by the top boats seems a little like cheating.

Others have said--and I agree with this concept--that the race organizers should provide excellent up-to-date weather information to all boats in the fleet, and disallow the use of private routing services. This would level the playing field; how the boats used this information would of course have an effect on their performance, bringing the skill back to the sailors on the boat rather than some shoreside geek.

On thing I like abouth Vendee Globe is that the use of shoreside weather routers is prohibited. The sailors plot the course, albeit with computer assistance.

I like having a windex. As for looking up, I am a mainsail trimmer (and occasionaly jib/spin trimmer). I get cramps when I have to look straight ahead for long periods. :) I'm also not that concerned about it breaking. If it does, it'll be because of very high wind, not ice - and if that's the case, the windex will be the least of my concerns.

#218 wrote:On thing I like abouth Vendee Globe is that the use of shoreside weather routers is prohibited.

That's good news; I was not aware of that.

I think the Vendee is really the ultimate sailing challenge: one person, one boat, no stops, and no assistance. Preparation and perserverence is everything.

#218 wrote:I like having a windex. As for looking up, I am a mainsail trimmer (and occasionaly jib/spin trimmer). I get cramps when I have to look straight ahead for long periods. :) I'm also not that concerned about it breaking. If it does, it'll be because of very high wind, not ice - and if that's the case, the windex will be the least of my concerns.

I like my Windex a lot and really miss it when I sail on a boat without one. To me, it's like a rearview mirror on a car: I give it frequent, quick glances, but don't fixate upon it. It's a handy tool; like all tools, overreliance should be avoided.

But I really hate it when some bozo removes it from the masthead after the mast is unstepped and then places it stupidly on the dock, where later on the same bozo kicks it overboard. (This is made even worse by the fact that the bozo even thought, while placing the Windex on the dock, that it was a dumb idea and he'd have to be careful not to step on it or knock it into the water!)

I love following the Volvo Ocean Race and will probably go down to Annapolis (where my boat is now) when the race comes there in April.

Following the last edition of the race, Nick Nicholson (a contributing editor to Practical Sailor magazine and a measurer for the VOR and the America's Cup) wrote in PS about the Volvo 60's used in that race and how they might actually make decent shorthanded cruising boats. The boats really are extremely safe, despite the breakdowns -- which are the result of pushing them much, much harder than a cruising sailor ever would.

On another note, in the most recent issue of Ocean Navigator magazine Eric Forsyth proposed a "green" ocean race, one that doesn't rely on any fossil fuels to get the boats around the world -- unlike the VOR or the Vendee. In both those races, the boats rely on diesel-powered electric generators to provide power for all their various systems including computers, water ballast pumps, etc... Now that's an idea I could get behind!

Regards,

Tim

Tim wrote:

#218 wrote: But I really hate it when some bozo removes it from the masthead after the mast is unstepped and then places it stupidly on the dock, where later on the same bozo kicks it overboard. (This is made even worse by the fact that the bozo even thought, while placing the Windex on the dock, that it was a dumb idea and he'd have to be careful not to step on it or knock it into the water!)

Dang! That bozo does get around. I'd swear he's helped me on a few projects, too.

Who you calling a bozo?!? I only knock tools overboard. And flashlights, cell phones, fasteners, hats......

Because of a slight code error, MQMurphy's post came out incorrectly attributing my quote to #218.

Here's what he meant to post:

MQMurphy meant to wrote:

Tim wrote:But I really hate it when some bozo removes it from the masthead after the mast is unstepped and then places it stupidly on the dock, where later on the same bozo kicks it overboard. (This is made even worse by the fact that the bozo even thought, while placing the Windex on the dock, that it was a dumb idea and he'd have to be careful not to step on it or knock it into the water!)

Dang! That bozo does get around. I'd swear he's helped me on a few projects, too.

I don't know.......I think he called me a bozo.

Hey, Jason - we're all bozos on this bus ;>)
Actually, though, I was responding to some kind of self-referential meta-remark (or some such thing) by Tim. Listening to my inner bozo . . .
Thanks for the clarification/editing, Tim.

From Wetass site:

http://team.abnamro.com/web/show/id=106977


25 knots......you suppose that is the rudder singing as she really gets going????

Ric


P.S. I am planning to go to annapolis OR if the set a gate at the bridge tunnel that ALL the boats have to pass thru I will go there. No way we could catch them.

May take the power boat if I still own it.

Anyone want to meet up???

Looks like fun. I'd kind of like to experience that kind of speed under sail someday, but I don't want to sail to the Southern Ocean to do so!

Ric,

My schedule won't allow me to be there for the Annapolis re-start on May 7, but I hope to be able to take in the "in port" race the previous weekend. Not sure exactly where that course will be set, but can't imagine it will be in Baltimore's inner harbor! More likely off Sandy Point just north of the Bay Bridge.

Hopefully will have the rig back in GREYHAWK so I'll be able to take her out to spectate.

Regards,

Fastest I have been on a sail boat was a newick designed trimaran (old OSTAR race boat named Third Turtle).

We were cracking along at about 19 knots and I could barely stand up the motion was so weird.

Pure fun......

I have to figure out a great way to see those VOR boats in motion, so we will have to plan as the days get closer.

Ric

I've been following the Volvo race since Melbourne, and one could throw a hat over all the boats since leaving Rio last Sunday. Musical chairs. Paul Cayard, skipper of Pirates and John Kostecki, new skipper of Ericcson were both standout sailors in a batch of classes on SF Bay when I sailed my Columbia Challenger and raced on a Santana 22 there in the early '80s. These two know each others' head games, and I'll enjoy following their progress.

The battle of the billionaires in the Americas Cup has grown old. While I'm technically challenged, the boats in the Volvo do seem to be bringing some new tech to the fore, tho doubt you'll want a canting keel on your Ariel, etc.. I too am amazed at the boatspeed they can generate at any given windspeed.

Hoping the approach to the U.S will give us TV viewing ops. Tickles me the Volvo site says the boats will have trouble dodging lobster pots in the Chesapeake. Since I used to live on Chincoteague Island, VA, I wrote them they might like to amend that to "crab pots", as lobster is harvested on the Continental Shelf about 70 miles offshore.

You missed a heck of a party and quite a grand sendoff.... last weekend they shut down one span of the Bay bridge and opened it for pedestrian traffic. The Volvo boats were set to head off to New York, they set the first mark just south of the main span of the bridge. We were stationed just over the mark. It was pretty spectacular. The best part, though, was they had a wind shift right after they started the race and 4 of the boats headed right up into the spectator fleet (which was estimated to be 3500 boats). To watch them maneuver the boats through the spectator fleet was very impressive. Here is a link if anybody is interested.
http://www.sail-world.com/index.cfm?Nid=23677


BTW, on another interesting note Cayard touched (we call it plowing around here, all Bay sailors plow at some point) POC just off the Bay bridge when they were bringing the boats from Baltimore. ;-) It happens.

On another note, the hulls in the next Volvo are going to be one design and each team will design the appendages and spars. This ought to make it even more interesting. Another interesting note, the two ABN boats are the male and female off the same mold.

Don't see a link....

Works for me.

Windrose, sure glad they will be using the same design, and America's Cup should follow suit.

Seeing that pic in your link reminds me of watching skipjacks race from Sandy Point. AND being stuck in Sunday beach traffic backups after burning up at Rehobeth, Chincoteague, etc beaches. Heaven was getting back in my a/c house in D.C.!

Last night about 10 I checked on the standings, tickled to see Cayard/Pirates leading, however temporarily. The way they've been trading places it's almost useless checking until they approach Portsmouth. I'm thinking the around Britain portion could be fierce.

Darn shame the crewman died on ABN Amro Two after being washed overboard. Where was his harness...TBD?

Reminds me of when some (not enough) sailors in the Bay Area were practicing man overboard drills.

I'm sure he was wearing a harness, given the conditions. However, the forces are tremendous and it certainly wouldn't be the first one to fail. It's a real tragedy.

Hopefully it won't cast too dark a cloud over the race.

I read the boats were driving through 4 - 5 metre seas and the winds were blowing about 30 knots. The speeds these boats achieve, with the corresponding forces, take any equipment to its design limits, and beyond, very quickly. There is little room for error. An improperly clipped harness, a momentary lapse in judgement, it doesn't take much for an accident to happen.
I'm not judging anyone - I've been enjoying the race so far, and I honestly thought if something was going to happen it would be in the Southern Ocean, not the Atlantic!
I think sailors learned a lot from the Fastnet (1987?) then the Sydney-Hobart (2000?). An inquest will be held and lessons learned from this incident. Ultimately, sailing will benefit.
It doesn't lessen the pain the family feels, and it should serve to remind us to sail smart. Even in the little bay on a calm day.

Cheers,
Ian

grampianman wrote:...a momentary lapse in judgement, it doesn't take much for an accident to happen.... and it should serve to remind us to sail smart. Even in the little bay on a calm day.

This is absolutely a lesson we should all take from this. Especially those of us who frequently single-hand. Going overboard, even in calm sheltered waters, doesn't normally turn out particularly well when there's no one else on the boat. And there are no guarantees, even if someone else IS on the boat.

dasein668 wrote:

grampianman wrote:...a momentary lapse in judgement, it doesn't take much for an accident to happen.... and it should serve to remind us to sail smart. Even in the little bay on a calm day.

This is absolutely a lesson we should all take from this. Especially those of us who frequently single-hand. Going overboard, even in calm sheltered waters, doesn't normally turn out particularly well when there's no one else on the boat. And there are no guarantees, even if someone else IS on the boat.

Amen.

Just obvious food for thought, but anyone here practiced man overboard drill? Can your first mate take charge in an emergency? Easier said than done. I was going sailing with a new to me skipper last week, and planned to ask about life preserver availability. Of course stupid me didn't. AND, I was a successful Risk Manager for a lot of years! Talking safety isn't very sexy, but neither is having unanticipated accidents.

Here is Paul Cayard (between the wheels) sailing past the Statue of Liberty. Today is his 47th birthday, and he's in a close fight for 2nd place to Portsmouth. I used to watch Paul race on SF Bay when he was 27 and younger. Man, that boats no tinker toy!

Well I guess it is now old news.... but Hans was the only man on deck without a harness on. Pretty stupid, he was also the only man with a wife and two kids. He paid the ultimate price for his mistake.

ABN TWO had to rescue the crew of Movistar when they were forced to abandon ship due to keel problems. ABN TWO still had Hans on board, the report was 19 crew and one corpse has safely landed in Falmouth.

Evidently, Movistar was not scuttled and is adrift with all her instruments, etc. Boy, wouldn't that be a salvors prize.

windrose wrote:Well I guess it is now old news.... but Hans was the only man on deck without a harness on. Pretty stupid, he was also the only man with a wife and two kids. He paid the ultimate price for his mistake.

ABN TWO had to rescue the crew of Movistar when they were forced to abandon ship due to keel problems. ABN TWO still had Hans on board, the report was 19 crew and one corpse has safely landed in Falmouth.

Evidently, Movistar was not scuttled and is adrift with all her instruments, etc. Boy, wouldn't that be a salvors prize.

I would not rush to judgement about Hans just yet though. From what I heard, the call was made for all hands on deck when the wind jumped from 10 to 25 knots. The folks on deck had to wait their turn to go below to get suited up. As the spin trimmer, Hans was the last to go... but the wave hit before he could.

Probably should have had one on already... but who are we to judge that since we weren't there or part of the crew? Agree it is sad. RIP HH.

By all accounts the last part of leg 7 was a nightmare. Even the battlehardened vetrerans said so. Sad as heck about Hans, and, foolish as it may sound, I feel a little sad for movistar too. She brought them about 30,000 miles and now adrift. Curious about her status.

That slog around the British Isles should be a challenge too.

P.S. Can you imagine the shock when that helmsman fighting heavy seas had that big wheel come off in his hand!

Ceasar, thanks for filling in the blanks.... I think we all agree it is very sad about Hans and our sympathies go out to his family and friends.

No problem.

BTW: it appears Movistar is out and they have abandoned the boat.

For updated news on this and other sailing related items try this site

http://www.bymnews.com/new/

IMHO the volvo site for the VOR I thought has had serious problems throughout this whole race ....

Being an old radio fan, I've enjoyed some of the Volvo site's live broadcasts of starts and finishes, especially when the latter have several boats in tight quarters.

I too am sorry about Hans drowning overboard, and the loss of movistar.

We were in Annapolis aboard GREYHAWK for the Chesapeake "In Port" race, which movistar won:



Regards,