1968 Pearson Renegade#145

s/v Groovy · Post by **s/v Groovy** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:50 am

We have named her 'Groovy'. She is a child of the 60's, she loves sailing in the groove, and well, sailing is just a groovy thing to do.....

This was one of the original 'For Sale' photos, all the other pics I have are too big. First I'll figure out how to post photos, later I'll resize the others...

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:40 pm

Renegades sure are pretty boats ! (just had to say that)

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:54 pm

Well I say it's pretty and I don't even own a Renegade!

Groovy, you didn't by any chance buy your boat on Lake Superior, did you? That looks just like a really well-kept Renegade named "Papillon" that was slipped where I worked a few years ago.

Rachel

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:51 pm

Papillon is #124. Caesar Choppy still maintains a list at http://www.renegade27.org/renegade.html . Although some day he might consider removing the bottom boat in this list http://www.renegade27.org/forsale.html (makes an attempt at an angry snarl)

jpmathieu · Post by **jpmathieu** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:32 pm

Renegades sure are pretty boats ! (just had to say that)

I Fully Agree!

AJ · Post by AJ » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:54 am

Very nice, Groovy. That's one handsome boat you have there! And judging from what I've seen in magazines and on TV, the Pacific Northwest must be a fantastic place in which to sail her.

AJ

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:34 am

Hirilond? wrote:Papillon is #124. Caesar Choppy still maintains a list at http://www.renegade27.org/renegade.html . Although some day he might consider removing the bottom boat in this list http://www.renegade27.org/forsale.html (makes an attempt at an angry snarl)

Yeah yeah yeah... I think I need to nuke that whole for sale page. After I figure out how to get the e-mail list working again.

BTW: Papillion was apparently re-gelcoated about 10 years ago according to her owner. If you want to get in touch with the owner, I can PM you the info.

Oh... and s/v Groovy. she's a beaut!... but then I'm biased.

s/v Groovy · Post by **s/v Groovy** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:56 pm

Thanks all, yes Papillion looks very similar, but she is much more glossy, especially compared to this early pic. I did go over all the cabin /cockpit areas with a rubbing cleaner wax, and it helped quite a bit. When I was looking for our boat, my wife instigated the only rule, you must be able to drive there and back in a day. I had actually walked down the 'For Sale' dock she was on many times, while I was learning what I was really looking for. She sat for sale for over 10 months, I personally think the original golden-yellow Formica and yellow and brown plaid upholstery kept many people from seeing what she really had to offer. Her PO had a Yanmar 2GM20F installed in 2001 and with only 150 hours, dry decks, classic lines, and just enough head room for me (If I wear a baseball hat the button on top will touch the cabin top). When I first looked at her, I knew it was a match. As I walked back to my car afterwards the name 'Groovy' just seemed to fit. The dingy will be christened 'Far Out'.

The Puget Sound is great, we can sail year round, I have big plans for fixing her up even more, but I just keep sailing her. Some Interdeck beige, is near the top of the list. One guy on our dock said, " every time I come down here you guys are out sailing".

Has anyone seen this guys site, http://www.oarclub.org/ , he sails a Renegade too, but without any engine.

JP, love that pic, how did that get taken?

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:38 pm

s/v Groovy wrote: JP, love that pic, how did that get taken?

Prolly the same way this was taken. ;) From the air.

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:01 pm

S/V Groovy wrote:Has anyone seen this guys site, http://www.oarclub.org/ , he sails a Renegade too, but without any engine.

I sure have. If my boss could handle having me sail up to my dock space all the time I would likely have joined it. It seems most of our 40 - 50+ foot customers cringe when I do it. There is a lot to be said for the freedom from those contraptions that make all the noise. If I had a mooring I would probably leave my outboard in a shed all summer. As I recall from reading James' (Atom) page he did his second go-round without an engine as well (not that his worked very well on the first one).

Its amazing what you learn to do when you don't have the option to chicken out and fire up the iron genny.

Duncan · Post by **Duncan** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:22 pm

Hirilond? wrote:Its amazing what you learn to do when you don't have the option to chicken out and fire up the iron genny.

Ain't it the truth - I give myself a star in the logbook every day I don't use it.

I just read Eric Hiscock's "Wandering Under Sail" for the first time, and it was a real inspiration to me. He's very matter-of-fact, just works out the wind and the tide. Only once or twice he accepts a tow from someone, when it's a bit more convenient. Meanwhile he has all sort of tricks and skills that people who always use their engines never learn.

Bonus: I always liked this passage.

Joshua Slocum wrote:The bay was feather-white as my little vessel tore in, smothered in foam. It was my first experience of coming into port alone, with a craft of any size, and in among shipping. Old fishermen ran down to the wharf for which the Spray was heading, apparently intent upon braining herself there. I hardly know how a calamity was averted, but with my heart in my mouth, almost, I let go the wheel, stepped quickly forward, and downed the jib. The sloop naturally rounded in the wind, and just ranging ahead, laid her cheek against a mooring-pile at the windward corner of the wharf, so quietly, after all, that she would not have broken an egg. Very leisurely I passed a rope around the post, and she was moored.

Then a cheer went up from the little crowd on the wharf. "You couldn't 'a' done it better," cried an old skipper, "if you weighed a ton!" Now, my weight was rather less than the fifteenth part of a ton, but I said nothing, only putting on a look of careless indifference to say for me, "Oh, that 's nothing"; for some of the ablest sailors in the world were looking at me, and my wish was not to appear green, for I had a mind to stay in Gloucester several days. Had I uttered a word it surely would have betrayed me, for I was still quite nervous and short of breath.

Robert The Gray · Post by **Robert The Gray** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:12 pm

I think you can get those shots from bridges and buildings near water. A tripod and telephoto helps. Having the sun shine in the right direction is another thing entirely.

engineless.....hmmm
ingoodcheer,

Hey look!! Here comes a crotchety old man:

In a discussion distinct from the relative aesthetic experiences of sailing versus motoring, sailing is the more pleasing experience, I would like to offer...........

I myself have sailed both without an engine and with. If you sail where tidal influences create currents above 2 knots then be prepared to wait or take unnecessary risks. It is very difficult to row a displacement hull faster than 2 knots. Your will be at the mercy of the tide. If you sail where there are tides and commercial traffic, the tide will take you into the path of commercial traffic with little too no steerage.
I myself don't see the use of an engine as chickening out, it is a tool in the kit like a backwinded jib. I have at times gotten my self into situations where if the engine had not fired and gotten into gear, I would have hurt boats and people. I am not proud of those situations and I feel like a pilot using a parachute. I feel I failed to plan all the possible behaviors of the boat and almost payed dearly. I thought I was going to be ok and did not think I would need the motor. If I was engineless I would have probably taken the same risks and crashed. I of course acknowledge my idiocy.
I fail to see the difference between well inspected and maintained standing, and running rigging systems, which are integral for a tendency towards foolproof sailing without an engine, and well inspected and maintained auxilary engine, drive, and fuel systems, which should be considered integral for a tendency towards foolproof motoring. The world of the commercial boats is dominated by engines. If these motors are not maintained bad stuff happens. If one is going to try sailing in constricted spaces and one has a running motor, fire it up and let it idle. If your motor is nonfunctioning because of lack of maintenance or investment consider that the same as a frayed halyard or a weak turnbuckle. We all make our choices when setting sail. The failure of any vital system on the water due to lack of inspection and maintenance should be considered a failure of preparation by the skipper. Tricks can be done with motors and sails alike, talk to the salmon boys in alaska.

This concludes the old crotchety man ranting. We hope you have enjoyed this excursion onto the sea of rightousness on the happy vessel of HAA. We now return you to our regularly civil discourse.

r

Post by **Tim** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:07 am

There's nothing wrong with having an engine, and there's nothing wrong with sailing completely engineless. Any sailor should know how to sail their boat. There is a host of reasons why a lot of sailors don't seem to know how to sail their boats, but it doesn't come down to a single factor.

So please, let's not get into a discussion of how much better anyone is one way or the other. Leave the sanctimony on the Oar Club site, please. There are inexperienced bozos on both sides of this particular coin, and highly skilled people (or bozos, if you prefer to keep the slate even) on both sides. It doesn't always come down to whether there's a hunk of iron in the bilge or not. A person can have good seamanship and skills with or without an engine, and whether or not they choose to use it for convenience. There are plenty of solid reasons why people use engines, and plenty of solid reasons why some choose to go without.

Yes, I'm slamming this door, but these discussions never end up anywhere happy. It's all been said ad nauseum.

jpmathieu · Post by **jpmathieu** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:26 am

s/v Groovy wrote:

JP, love that pic, how did that get taken?

Prolly the same way this was taken. ;) From the air.

Correct. This was taken during 25th Figawi back in 1996( I think)

There was a Helicopter photographer over the fleet all day. Later at Figawi central on Nantucket you could buy the pictures. I did (cost me 90 bucks)

Would love to see more pictures of Groovy

s/v Groovy · Post by **s/v Groovy** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:16 pm

Would love to see more pictures of Groovy

OK, I think i got the 'resize' thing down.....

Here a are a few from our week in the San Juan Islands last summer...

leaving Coupville at sunrise to hit slack at Deception Pass (can have 6+ knot currents)

we got to the pass early so we stopped and waited for slack at Coronet Bay (sp?)

Deception Pass

We pulled into Skyline Marina for the night to have dinner with some friends that live on top the hill. The Harbor master put us in the 'Rich Neighborhood', I actually turned her around INSIDE this slip.

the next morning, one of the nearby owners informed us that this is 'Private Property', lol. The unlimited hot water shower was worth the $20 for the night, his attitude was free.

the foredeck sure is comfy... (small dock at James Island)

jpmathieu · Post by **jpmathieu** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:16 pm

Great pictures, Shes a beauty.

Very curious about your cabin heater setup. I see the stack sticking out of the coachroof. Is Groovy a dinette model or rear galley model? What kind of heater do you have?

s/v Groovy · Post by **s/v Groovy** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:49 pm

She is a Dinette model. its funny cuz the title says 1967 but dinettes were made in 1968, so I think the hull was laid in '67 and completed latter, but on the Renegade registry 1968's start with hull #123. so it's a mystery. Anyway I call her a '68.

The heater is a small wood stove. I cleaned remnants of Charcoal briquettes out of it, from the PO. I salvaged some cans of sterno after a catered party last year. I've been using those to take the chill off. Someday I'll get my courage up and start a real fire in there. It takes up about half of the hanging locker, recessed in, nice and out of the way but not the best for heating, compromises. She is not that big inside, and it doesn't take much. The stove is maybe 5x5x10, then a metal fire box, and a wood cabinet. I was thinking of a small 12v fan blowing into the firebox someday.When I get home I'll see if any of the original Yacht World pics show it, or I'll take a pic of it next time I get the chance, I remember the surveyor saying, "those are great little stoves". I think it was made in Washington State, but not any more.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:31 pm

The stove sounds great. Could it be a 'Sardine'? I think they are made out there now (www.marinestove.com).

Based on my own experience I would test the stove thoroughly before you think you really need it.

My stove had every indication of having been used before so one chilly morning in the boatyard I fired it up. It worked great. Later when I went up on deck I noticed a dark ring on the deck around my stovepipe. Further investigation revealed burnt balsa coring all around the exhaust stack(Charlie Noble type) radiating outward for several inches.

Just because it is installed doesn't mean it actually works :-)

Nice boat pics too.

-Britton

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:02 pm

I noticed the chimney right away too. I wonder if it's a Cole stove - they were made in the PNW, I believe.

Thanks for the additional photos. I hope the belowdecks tour is next!

Rachel

Mark.Wilme · Post by **Mark.Wilme** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:51 pm

JP - how is the Figawi ? we were thinking about it this year, maybe next ...

s/v Groovy · Post by **s/v Groovy** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:09 am

Well done, Rachel.

I got out the survey... "Cole #1655 Solid Fuel Stove"

can't find any stove pics right now...but here is what the interior is like,

http://renegade27.org/Renegade_page2.html

I still have the plaid cushions, hey they're coming back in style...right?

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:24 am

When I bought my boat it had a Newport solid fuel cabin heater http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=20010F partially installed. Hirilond? is an aft galley version and the heater was located at the forward end of the port settee (which is also the head bulkhead). As much as I would have liked to keep it I couldn't justify (in my mind anyway) the thought of having a head banger that got really hot intruding on the berth function of the settee. I beat myself up considering all the options, how often I would really have 4 people sleeping on the boat, etc.. Cabin heaters really are nice. I suspect I will find out I get cold when only 2 of us are cruising and I will miss it. Another compromise of the many we have to consider on small boats........

jpmathieu · Post by **jpmathieu** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:47 am

Groovey thanks for the info on the cabin heater stove. That topic looks like it might need its own thread. I personally would love to see a picture of the setup.

JP - how is the Figawi ? we were thinking about it this year, maybe next ...

In summary: One crazy long tiring drunken expensive weekend, but fun, everyone should try it once.

The renegade is a small boat in the figawi fleet. I did it for fun and one of my buddies worked for nynex at the time and got my boat sponsored to race. As for the sailing performace of a old renegade let me say this. The first leg iof the race I was doing quite well, 7000lb boat in light air. AT the first mark the wind died, the only boats moving were the melges, J's and me. the afternoon wind picked up to the second mark which woke up the big boys. at that point I couldn't get out of the way fast enough. although I still was on a startboard tack around the sea bouy when about 40 30-50 footers came up on me on a port tack, even though I had right of way, I thought I was toast, I really though I was going to get run over. Anyway does anyone really know how big a sea bouy is... I do... the current was moving my renegade faster than the wind, I rolled my boat around one, the top of the bouy was at my spreaders, It left red paint down my toerail, but nobody protested me for hitting the mark. soooooo if anyone races figawi in a small boat beware of rounding the marks with the serious race boats bearing down on you. So much for the racing performance of a 40 year old pearson renegade.

The rest of the time is a drunked party.

to get back on tack

Groovey wrote:

I still have the plaid cushions, hey they're coming back in style...right?

I beleive "retro" is the word

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:22 am

jpmathieu wrote: The renegade is a small boat in the figawi fleet. I did it for fun and one of my buddies worked for nynex at the time and got my boat sponsored to race. As for the sailing performace of a old renegade let me say this. The first leg iof the race I was doing quite well, 7000lb boat in light air. AT the first mark the wind died, the only boats moving were the melges, J's and me. the afternoon wind picked up to the second mark which woke up the big boys. at that point I couldn't get out of the way fast enough. although I still was on a startboard tack around the sea bouy when about 40 30-50 footers came up on me on a port tack, even though I had right of way, I thought I was toast, I really though I was going to get run over. Anyway does anyone really know how big a sea bouy is... I do... the current was moving my renegade faster than the wind, I rolled my boat around one, the top of the bouy was at my spreaders, It left red paint down my toerail, but nobody protested me for hitting the mark. soooooo if anyone races figawi in a small boat beware of rounding the marks with the serious race boats bearing down on you. So much for the racing performance of a 40 year old pearson renegade.

I used to do the MD Governor's Cup with Athene and had a similar experience. The pic above is from our first where we came in 4th. The problem with the heavy winds (its blowing 20k in that photo) are the associated heavy seas and chop in the Ches. Bay. It really slows a 27 foot boat down when slamming into waves going to windward. We saw a lot of stern lights that night. But I can say the next morning we passed a lot of 40 footers with a 35 year old spinnaker (read lighter than crepe paper) in very light air. Of course a PHRF rating of 246 didn't hurt either.

s/v Groovy · Post by **s/v Groovy** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:39 pm

this kind of shows the stove....(looking aft from the v-birth)

when I get some better pics I'll start a 'Show us your heater' thread

jpmathieu · Post by **jpmathieu** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:22 pm

when I get some better pics I'll start a 'Show us your heater' thread

So not to take over your thread to much I started a cabin heater thread in sails/rigging/systems

Very interesting setup (at least to me) I had thought that the hanging locker may be a good space for a heater, It is central in the boat.

s/v Groovy · Post by **s/v Groovy** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:02 pm

I found some more of the Yacht World pics?

V-birth

Dinette (converted to a double) mmm? love that upholstery

Head

Yanmar 2GM20F

I?ll consider these the ?before? pictures?

s/v Groovy · Post by **s/v Groovy** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:30 pm

The PO extended the Starboard side galley over the quarter birth, adding more counter space, and a gimbaled Kenyon Alcohol stove.

got to love the Formica color, eh?