Refinishing Interior Wood in Winter?

[DPTrainor]

Greetings,

One of my (many) outstanding projects is to refinish my interior Wood. I would like to do this over winter - altleast the preparation part - while all the stuff is off boat - and to get head start on spring. The wood is a typical mix of Teak and Veneered plywood. It is currently oiled with Watco danish treatment. I have a good forced hot air system (Webasto) to keep cabin warm and dry. The main problem is the boat will be shrinked wrapped. Questions:

1. How much preparation can I do without much ventilation (only a zipper door access w/ fan)?

2. Are there paint (oil) strippers that do not have overly toxic fumes for use in closed spaces?

3. What would be the best method to control / minimize sanding dust in the cabin?

4. Is it possible to somehow establish proper temp/humidity to apply oil -or- varnish in this shrink-wrapped environment in winter?

5. Or am I kinding myself - would it be more practical to wait until spring/summer to refinish?

[Tim]

1. How much preparation can I do without much ventilation (only a zipper door access w/ fan)?

Basically, as much as you can stand. You're going to create dust, but with a good respirator you can put up with quite a lot. Just vacuum at the end of the day, and you're all set for the next time. You could set up a couple large fans to pull air out of the cabin, then out the shrinkwrap door; these might help.

2. Are there paint (oil) strippers that do not have overly toxic fumes for use in closed spaces?

Probably the newer "safe" strippers, though these are often temperature-sensitve and work less well at lower temperatures. Of course, the best strippers are the most toxic, and have the strongest fumes. Personally, I'd rather deal with sanding dust than nasty liquids and fumes.

3. What would be the best method to control / minimize sanding dust in the cabin?

A vac attachment for your sander would probably help in this instance. I don't normally use these myself, as I am very stuck in my ways and expect that sanding dust is a byproduct of sanding, but others report that these tools actually work quite well. My problem was always that the hose and/or hood around the sander woudl get in the way and make it more awkward. If this doesn't bother you, it's worth using a vac setup.

If you have areas you don't plan to sand and refinish now, then take the time to plastic them off. The dust will get everywhere, so be sure to cover anything sensitive, or areas you don't want to be dusty.

Try to make sure your bilges are clean and dry, too. Lots of sanding dust mixed with water or whatever else is down there can make a fine mess.

4. Is it possible to somehow establish proper temp/humidity to apply oil -or- varnish in this shrink-wrapped environment in winter?

That depends on your heater. At a minimum, you could at least get some base coats on, and plan to do your final coat later in the spring. I would probablky wait on the final coat, but for base coats--where coverage is most important, not the final quality--I think you could easily do them if you keep the interior reasonably heated. I did the varnish several years on the interior on my boat during reconstruction in an outdoor tent in December, with only a portable heater. It was a warm December, which certainly helped.

5. Or am I kinding myself - would it be more practical to wait until spring/summer to refinish?

Maybe, but you can get a lot of the preparation out of the way now--even if you wait to apply the finish entirely until spring.

[Rachel]

Dan,

It looks like this was your first post, so I just wanted to say welcome to the forum!

If you've been reading already you've probably figured out that everyone here loves to consider questions, and to read about - and see photos of - just about any project, from the most basic to the super-gnarly; so feel free to post away :-)

--- Rachel

[DPTrainor]

Thanks Tim and Rachel.

Tim -
Thanks for your most expert advise. It is very sensible and inline with my goal. I have been following your restoration projects and advise on this forum - it is most impressive to say the least. I am a neophte relative to what you folks tackle in terms of projects - but I am here to learn and improve my knowledge / skills.

Rachel -
Yes, this is my first post, although I have have been reading this forum for several weeks - Thank you very much for the kind welcome! It is now my favorite forum! So much knowledge concentrated here. I love to work and improve on my boat. Problem is (not really a problem) I love to sail too - so in spring/summer/fall , I want to be out sailing and does not afford much time with my second love, restoring my good old boat. But I am attempting to reach a good balance - Not sure whether I enjoy vanishing or sailing more than the other - both are so very satisfying to me. So, now I am trying to take advantage of off-season this winter to do electrical, plumbing and woodworking projects to the extent the weather permits.

Kind Regards, Dan

[Mark.Wilme]

Dan - I can't beleive it, you finally found Tims website only hours after you and I exchanged emails and reconnected.

welcome.

Mark

(Impeckable and yet-to-be-named Beneteau 381)

[DPTrainor]

Mark,

Holy Cow! It is a small world. Good to know you hang out in the same places as I do - even the same Marina! Amazing.

Dan

[Robert The Gray]

Great comments Tim. I would add that it is best to really empty the boat, Tim is right about dust getting everywhere. Have no fabric or rope on board, cover your inboard engine if you have one. cover back of the electrical panel, empty all the lockers in the section you are working and seal off the rest of the boat.
I would like to put in my vote for the vacume attachments on sanders. I feel that it makes the paper last longer and clean up is much simplified. I do feel that for sanding the hose does not need to be very big, I think a long, 8', 5/8" hose, like for above the waterline bilgepump discharge, could be modified to fit most sanders. i feel that a vibrating sander does only so good a job, even with 220 paper there are still swirl marks. the final hand sanding with the grain in each grit will make a huge difference in the look of the wood under any finish. I wish I could find a small hand sanding block with a vacume attachment. During my interior remodel I went through three of those brush attachments for my small shop vac. they work great for dust.

Will you be going back on with oil, or are you going with a varnish like finish? This may determine how much you have to sand. i do not know but is it possible to prep a previously oiled surface using a teak oil deck cleaner? there may not be much of a veneer on the plywood to sand.

welcome to the forum and if you were not aware already we all love photos!!!!

robert

[Summersdawn]

Varthane will work over top of Watco Teak oil. The effect is quite nice. You can build with high gloss, and put a satin finish for the final coat.

It might be worth trying it on some scrap, as it will save you alot of work.

[DPTrainor]

Robert,

Thanks for your fine comments. My boat is now completely empty. I think I will seal areas that I am not currently working on with plastic sheeting. OK, on vaccum attachment on sander and benefits of hand sanding. I'll experiment and see what works out best for me. I was thinking of hand (block) sanding with one hand and holding the shop vac hose in other hand :) I wish someone would invent a hand sanding block w/ vaccum attachment - if not too combursome.

I have not yet decided on oil or varnish yet.

Over summer, as an experiment, I used Starbrite Teak gel cleaner (on advise of friend) on one of the venerred plywood panels, and it did an excelent job of removing the oil completly down to bare wood and did not raise grain by any noticable amount. Then I cleaned off panel with water, and a small amount of clorine bleach and wisk laundry detergent using a fine 3M pad and wiping clean. Then let it dry and very lightly hand sanded with 180, 220. Tacked it. Let it dry some more. Re-oiled with Watco (wet sanding slurry with 600), wiping down excess, ley dry and re-applyed Watco several times I also tried Amazon Tung oil on another panel (why? I am not sure - experiementing). It came out pretty nice satin smooth but alot more work than varnishing I believe and I am concerned about sanding this veneer too much.

I'll be sure to take photos.

Thanks,

[DPTrainor]

Rick,

On Rust-Oleum site, I found this:

"A surface coat is not necessary over WATCO wood finishes, however if a clear finish is desired, use Varathane Professional or Interior Diamond Wood Finish. These products may be applied 72 hours after applying a WATCO wood finish or Rejuvenating Oil."

Apprarently "Diamond" Varathane is water-based and thier "Premium" Varathane is oiled-based. I would have thought they would recommend the oil-based version for use over Watco oil treatment/ I wonder if it is a "typo" on their web site. Or my lack of understanding of water-based polyurethane.

Also apparently Watco Wipe-on Polyurethane can also be used over Watco oil finish - "Adds an additional level of protection to wood finished with WATCO Danish Oil"

In any case, if I do what you are suggesting, I would clean / rejuvinate existing Watco application on wood, then over coat with Varathane polyuerthane - saving the effort of stripping and bare wood preparation. Interesting idea. Food for thought....Isse may be that existing oil (linseed based) finish has darkend over time and I want to acheive a lighter appearance.

Thanks.

[Rachel]

I was thinking of hand (block) sanding with one hand and holding the shop vac hose in other hand :)

When I was working on the deck core replacement of my Montgomery (back when there were fewer tools with integral dust collection - at least in my possession) I did just that -- hold up a Shop-Vac hose -- while I was cutting out overhead skin and wet core inside the boat with a Multimaster. At one point, exasperated with trying to hold the ~3" diameter hose up near the tool (fighting sore arms, whirring blades, and the like), I came up with one of those "satisficing" solutions - and I still use it sometimes (or will, if I ever have a workspace and a Shop-Vac again :-)

What I did was to tape a ~2-foot-long 1x1 to the hose with duct tape. One end of the stick was lined up at just the same length as the open end of the hose, and then the tape wrapped around both very close to their lined-up ends. So I could hold the other (free) end of the stick at a place that was more comfortable and really get the open end of those hose right up next to the work. The tape wraps spanned enough of the hose/stick interface that the stick didn't just swing free, but could be used to direct the hose. Still, there was nearly 2 feet of un-taped stick.

At times -- lying on my back under the side-deck for example -- (ahh, good times), I was able to wedge the stick between my arm and my torso and then I didn't have to put much effort at all into holding it up. Perhaps something like this could work while hand sanding too.

--- R

[Summersdawn]

Rick,

On Rust-Oleum site, I found this:

"A surface coat is not necessary over WATCO wood finishes, however if a clear finish is desired, use Varathane Professional or Interior Diamond Wood Finish. These products may be applied 72 hours after applying a WATCO wood finish or Rejuvenating Oil."

Apprarently "Diamond" Varathane is water-based and thier "Premium" Varathane is oiled-based. I would have thought they would recommend the oil-based version for use over Watco oil treatment/ I wonder if it is a "typo" on their web site. Or my lack of understanding of waIt lookster-based polyurethane.

Also apparently Watco Wipe-on Polyurethane can also be used over Watco oil finish - "Adds an additional level of protection to wood finished with WATCO Danish Oil"

In any case, if I do what you are suggesting, I would clean / rejuvinate existing Watco application on wood, then over coat with Varathane polyuerthane - saving the effort of stripping and bare wood preparation. Interesting idea. Food for thought....Isse may be that existing oil (linseed based) finish has darkend over time and I want to acheive a lighter appearance.

Thanks.

That's not a typo. The water or oil based stuff will stick really well to the Watco, provided it has had the 72 hours to dry. I've been using this on the bright work of my boat for about 6 years.

I've had success in the past "lightening" oiled teak with a scrub. I use a little bit of mild soap, and a soft brush. Give it a little scrub, rinse, and let it dry. It will look a little faded and splotchy, but much lighter after it has dried. Then give it another coat of oil. This should even things out alot. You can then proceed with the Varathane. This technique may not always work, it will depend alot on how dark the teak has become, and what type of oil has been used in the past.

[Tim]

The problem with oil finishes is that they tend to collect and absorb small dirt and other particles over the years, which contributes to the darkening effect. Wood also naturally darkens over time, of course.

Only cleaning/sanding/brightening can reverse this effect. I prefer the look and longevity of varnish finishes on the interior, because it's a one-time deal, and the wood will only darken slightly as the varnish becomes slightly more amber with exposure to light--usually a pleasing effect.

If you're going to go to the effort to basically strip your woodwork down to bare wood, I'd suggest considering a varnish finish--a couple coats of gloss as a base, and a coat of satin as the top coat (unless you prefer a glossy topcoat, of course). If you do this correctly, you'll never have to address the interior woodwork again, and it's really not much more work to do.

[Steve Laume]

I have had very good results in home remodeling work minumising dust migration. Basically I try to set up a vacume in the work area. Not a vacume cleaner or shop vac but negative pressure where I am creating dust. This can be accomplished by setting up a big window fan and shutting all other doors and windows. Any cracks will keep dust from exiting because they are always drawing air. I can't imagine trying to seal or cover all the areas of a boat where you would not want dust. Do the best you can and set up a big old ugly window fan in the companion way or one of the hatches. Keep all the ports closed but allow some air to enter the engine compartment and or the forward area if you are not working there. This even works for sheet rock dust and nothing is as bad as that, Steve.

[Rachel]

That's a good point, Steve - I've had good luck doing that on home stuff too. Maybe this goes without saying, but the fan should be blowing out, not in, and the other openings can't be too large (the non-fan ones) or there is not sufficient vacuum (you did mention about keeping the other cracks small, I see that).