Awl Grip for mast

[George (Triton #236 )]

Hi Guys,


One of the projects on the list for the new boat is to do all the mast work while the mast is still on the ground. Paint, new wiring, new navigation lights, etc.

I've really grown to love the bright white AwlGrip on Ca Ira's new mast and would like to replicate it on Delphinus ( the new C&C 40 ). The current mast is done in a white enamel paint that's getting a little chalky.

The plan is to sand it all down, apply the correct primer, and paint with Snow White Awl Grip using a brushing converter.

I seem to remember Tim had several very specific ideas on the types of primers and converters and reducers for such a project. Also, any estimates on amounts to purchase? The mast is about 62' in length and has two sets of spreaders.


Thanks,

George

[Tim]

George,

Welcome back from your Isabel-induced purgatory! And it appears congratulations are in order: did you finalize the deal on the C&C? Great.

After you remove all the paint from the mast down to bare aluminum, you need to apply an etching solution. (Alumiprep-33) Sand the mast well, then apply the etcher immediately. I believe that you need to overcoat the mast rapidly after the etcher is applied (I think I have a bottle of it and will check the directions) so that the aluminum does not oxidize again.

To overcoat, you should use a conversion like Alodine 1201. This is purpoted to be a good paint substrate. I'm not clear at this point whether you can, or should, apply regular primer afterwards. I'm sure you can; don't know if you have to, though. If so, I would use Awlgrip 545 primer, which I have not yet used myself. All reports are favorable, though, and I'm using this one on the Daysailor.

When ordering the Awlgrip products, be sure to always choose the specific brushing catalysts and brushing reducers. They are not the same as those intended for spray. It's clear from the catalogs which is which.

You probably need only a quart of paint for your mast. I estimate about 150 sq. ft. or less, including the spreaders. (62' long X about 1' fore-and-aft, X 2 sides = 124). Check the coverage estimates from Awlgrip. You'll probably need only two coats.

Good luck.

[George ( Triton #236 )]

Hi Tim,


Thanks for the note. I knew you were the man for the job. Yes, Denise and I closed on the boat Friday ( yeaterday ) and it leaves Ohio on the 13'th!

Back to business...

Do you feel that it's necessary to bring the mast down to bare aluminum? I was hoping to give it a good sanding down to the primer and build from there with the Awl Grip primer and then the paint itself. Although, I guess there exists the possibility of the Awl Grip lifting the underlying primer.

I'm having the hull sandblasted in preparation for the three layers of West System with aluminium 430 filler and then a couple coats of a good barrier coat before the new bottom paint goes on. I could ask the sandblaster if the mast could be done at the same time. Come to think about it, that's exacly what I'm going to do! ( my elbow feels better already! )

Talk to you soon,

George
Triton #236 "Ca Ira"

P.S. "Ca Ira" should show up on "Yachtworld" by the end of the week!

[Tim]

You can test for solvent compatibility on the mast by cutting an "X" in the paing with a sharp knife and then taping an Awlgrip reducer-soaked rag in place for a time. If the paint lifts, you'll know you have to strip the whole thing.

The Awlgrip solvents are strong enough that they tend to be incompatible with most one-part enamels and such. I wouldn't want to really go to all the effort to repaint without ensuring proper preparation first.

Alternatively, you could simply paint the mast with some paint other than Awlgrip; lesser paints work well on masts because you aren't "up close and personal" with it. The Awlgrip, properly prepared and applied, will far outlast the others, though.

[George ( Triton #236 )]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the great advice. I think you are right about stripping it down to the bare aluminum if I go with the Awl Grip.

George

[The Good Goose]

George

When I painted my mast I ground it with 36 grit with an 8 inch grinder as suggested in the awl grip manual. It went really quick maybe two hours for the mast and another two or three for the boom spinnaker pole and spreaders and alll the other little parts. I sprayed mine I used the aluminum primer then the 545 and then the white. It came out perfect. After talking to a rigger I would use the wash rather then the aluminum primer he said that the primer is soft and that the paint comes off easier. I would guess you might need two quarts of 545 primer if you use this method as you would need to spray two or three coats to allow you to sand before the finnish coats. If you roll and brush maybe you can do it with one.

The Key to painting aluminum is to have your ducks in a row. You have a very limited time to recoat after etching or priming the aluminum. IF your supplier will let you return extra I would have an extra quart of 545 on hand after etching just in case. YOu don't want to run short and have to start all over again. Spraying is nice in that you can do the whole project in two days.

Good Luck
Brock

[George ( Triton #236 )]

Hi Brock,


Thanks for the note. Your timing is excellent as I have the job scheduled to start early Saturday morning and end Wednesday or so of next week. We have several days in the high sixties / low seventies scheduled starting on Friday. Should be low humidity too so I'm going for it.

As I've always said, anything worth doing is worth overdoing! Or maybe that was Tim Lackey? Anyway, I purchased gallon units of everything. I plan to only paint with Awlgrip from now on so I was sure I could use all the converters, reducers, washes, cleaners etc. over time.

Hopefully I do have all my ducks in a row. The curent plan is as follows:


Friday:

Final cleaning and prep of the mast for painting


Saturday:

Awl-Prep Surface Cleaner ( two rag )
Alumiprep-33 Etching Solution
Alodine 1201 Chromic Acid Conversion coating
First coat of 545 Anti-Corrosive Primer


Sunday:

Very light sanding w/ 150 grit
Awl-Prep Surface Cleaner ( two rag )
Second coat of 545 Anti-Corrosive Primer


Monday:

Final primer sanding w/ 220 grit
Awl-Prep Surface Cleaner ( two rag )
First coat of Snow White topcoat


Tuesday:

Very light sanding w/ 220 grit
Awl-Prep Surface Cleaner ( two rag )
Second coat of Snow White topcoat


Wednesday:

Final light sanding w/ 320 grit
Awl-Prep Surface Cleaner ( two rag )
Final coat of Snow White topcoat


Ahhh, this is what I love about AwlGrip. The simplicity of the process.

I'm still debating about one or two primer coats. The surface is perfectly fair right now and I don't need the 545 primer for anything other than as a base for the topcoats. I would even go straight from the Alodine 1201 to the topcoats except that every publication I've looked at has either 30-Y-94 Primer, 545 Anti-Corrosive primer, or that yellow primer that goes with the Ultra Build Primer between the 1201 and the first topcoat.

Any thoughts or ideas?


Thanks again for the note,

George Jones

Triton #236
C&C 40 #21

[The Good Goose]

George

I'd go with the 545 myself The paint just loves to stick to that primer. I don't know about the other stuff. I had more tooth to the mast then you since I used 36 grit before painting so I needed it to fill in the voids as well. I sprayed two fairky heavy coats of 545 and then sanded after it was dry. I sprayed 3 very light coats of the finish and did not have any runs. Good luck. I couldn't be happier with my mast and boom.

Brock

[George ( Triton #236 )]

Hi Guys,


So far so good. In a four and a half hour long sprint I got the Alumiprep-33 done, the Alodine 1201 conversion done, and the gray 545 primer done. Having heard stories of how bad the AwlQuick primers can be I was a little worried about how the 545 gray primer would work out. I shouldn't have been. The 545 primer combined with its converter, a dash of cold cure, and an equal dash of T0031 brushing reducer produced a primer with a beautiful flow and a smooth finish. Very similar to the topcoat paint itself -- as long as you keep adding a dash of reducer every 5 minutes or so to keep the flow right -- the application is easy.

It appears that one coat of primer should be perfect for the mast as there is no fairing to be done. I start the topcoats tomorrow.

The alumiprep - 33 treatment went well and produced a very bright finish. The Alodine 1201 was a little less exciting. I was expecting a deep gold color to suffuse the entire mast, but all I got was slight gold tone to the aluminum. Oh well, the primer seemed to stick extremely well so I guess it did its job.

If everything goes as planned I should be done with the body of the mast by Tuesday. I'll work on the boom and spreaders over the winter in my shop.


George

Triton #236
C&C 40 #21

[Tony G]

In preparation for up and coming painting projects I've been reading everything with the words "awl" or "grip" in it. So far everything I've found indicates 545 has to be sprayed on. However, from your post here, George, it sound like you brushed on the primer extrapolating from the line..."an equal dash of T0031 brushing reducer"... Is this true or is it just wishful thinking on my part? Tony G

[heartofgold]

TonyG,
No, that's not wishful thinking on your part. Awlgrip 545 primer can be sparyed or brushed/rolled--it is just necessary to use the correct converter for brushing. T0031 is the brushing reducer for the 2-part paint, but there is a separate brushing converter for the 545. I found the 545 to be much easier to work with than the experience Tim describes with Awlquik on the Glissando webpages (much to my relief!). Also, it is my experience that if you are painting with a light color, use a white primer, or the grey for a dark topcoat. I have used this product on fiberglass only, but the properties of the primer won't change because you are painting aluminum.

If you have any more questions, just ask.

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi All,


I do love my Awl Grip mast and would argue that there is no other way to go when it comes to painting aluminum masts. I would say that it is easier to do a good job by spraying the awlgrip; but if don't have a place to do it then go with the brushing method. Mine took a long time to do but looks great and not a bit of scuffing or chalk when I climb it!

U.S. Paint says that you should use light color primers with light color topcoats and dark color primers with dark topcoats unless you are painting aluminum in which case you should only use the Alumiprep 33 -- Alodine 1201 --545 Grey Primer sequence.

The 545 primers can be either sprayed or brushed as is. The primer needs to be fully sanded between coats ( make it all light grey )

The topcoats require special converters depending on weather or not you are going to spray them or brush them. If you are going to brush them the combination is -- Topcoat paint, Awl Cat #3 converter, and T0031 reducer.

Have fun and keep telling yourself -- " I love sanding! "


George

[Tony G]

Thanks for the fast replies, and the unsolicited testimonials regarding the quality of the product line. It has become apparent to me which paint we'll apply. I was able to find a 100+ page info file on Awlgrip products and it did have some, albeit light, info on applying 545 with a brush and/or roller. I did note the T0031 brushing reducer but after reading these posts I went looking for a brushing converter and found no mention of one. No real surprise as there are some 'gaps' in this information brochure. Would you happen to have the product number for the specific converter? Thanks again, Tony G

By the way, I do love sanding...I don't know why...

[Tim]

By the way, I do love sanding...I don't know why...

Want a job? ;<)

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi All,

The Awl Cat #3 converter is the converter you use when brushing the topcoat. As mentioned before you need all three mixed together -- your choice of topcoat paint, Awl Cat #3 converter, and T0031 reducer.

When doing the primer there is only the one converter ( D-3001 ). Good for both spraying and brushing.

George

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi All,


Just finished mast, boom, and spreader set #4 and these are some of the things I did a little differently this time...

I would up the amount of Awlcat #3 conveter in the mix. Maybe from the 2:1 that is recomended to something more like 2:1.3. Semed to work well on this last mast. Also, I reduce about 20% with T0031 these days. I didn't use a roller at all this time. Taped the seams with 3M's #225 "Long Mask Silver" and only painted one side at a time. This procedure allowed me to lay the paint on a bit thicker and not use a roller.

Fumes can be bad so I wear a full-face respirator mask. The one I use is the 3M 6000 series full face mask.


George Jones

[Tim]

I'd be careful messing with the proper ratio of converter to topcoat. I think this can easily lead to trouble, and would not recommend this approach. Like epoxy resin, the ratio of converter to topcoat is a carefully-dictated component of the chemical reaction that cures this paint. While a slight intolerance is perfectly acceptable, one should strive to keep the ratio at the proper level.

George, I'm curious: why did you decide tochange the ratio?

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi Tim,

Since I wasn't rolling it first, the thickness of the coats were up a bit and the increased ratio of Awlcat #3 eliminated any sagging. Job came out perfect too. That being said, you are probably right about keeping the ratios as exact as possible. A better solution might have been to add some "Awlgrip Cold Cure" to the mix instead of what I did.

George Jones

[Gary M]

Hi I know this is an old thread but I am going to paint my mast with Awlgrip next week I hope. The information here is quite useful but I was wondering how important you both feel the Alumiprep 33 and Alodine 1201 is? As I understand it is a corrosion inhibitor step and the Awlgrip site seems to indicate it is some what optional. It seems to be a lot of extra work and if you do not get it just right it can cause corrosion anyway.

I sail in fresh water if that makes any difference. Please let me know what you think.

Thanks
Gary

[Tim]

There are five separate systems--each using its own specific preparation details and etching/priming products--sanctioned by Awlgrip for painting aluminum. The instructions for each of the five systems are quite specific. Fresh water is certainly going to be a lot easier on your mast after painting, so you may not need the ultimate in corrosion protection in your case. Therefore, one of the systems that does not use the chemical etchers may be a good choice for you.

The first step is to determine which system best suits your needs. Several of the systems use Alumiprep and Alodine, and the others do not. So you can do it either way...but don't try to mix and match techniques and products between the five systems. It also makes a difference how you plan to apply the products; not all of the products recommended in each system are as applicable to brush as to spray.

Link: Awlgrip Application Guide for Aluminum Surfaces

I painted my spar a few years ago using the Awlgrip preparation system #3, which uses Alumiprep 33, Alodine 1201, and 30-Y-94 zinc chromate primer. I have been pleased with the results to date, despite the issues I experienced thanks to my late-season outdoor painting attempts. (All described at the link below.)

I chose this system because I thought it made the most sense, and offered the best potential adhesion and corrosion protection for an old spar. It's also a quick system, as you etch, prime, and topcoat in a single day. (Spray application only)

Painting a spar with Awgrip using Alumiprep 33, Alodine 1201, and 30-Y-94 primer

I also used this system to paint a new aluminum boom, with very good results.

Painting the boom

[Gary M]

Thanks Tim I will look at those links. Guess I should have clarified that I will be using a brush not spraying and so I planned on using the 545 primer. I have read the Awlgrip applications and they state that you can go straight to this primer if you cannot use the Alumiprep.

I am not expecting a professional job, but my existing spar and boom are a mess so it will be a big improvement. There is no existing corrosion
(unless I find some under fittings) just lots of places where the paint has been marked up.
If a couple of coats of the 545 primer and then a couple more of topcoat will have decent adhesion then I would go that way.
Is the Alumiprep primarily for corrosion protection? or is it necessary to get good adhesion?

Thanks Again
Gary

[Tim]

Alumiprep is a chemical etcher that cleans the aluminum and aids adhesion of the paint by virtue of the cleaning and etching process.

Mechanical preparation (i.e. sanding) with coarse paper will also acheive clean, bright metal that's appropriate for adhesion of primer. At least one of the Awlgrip aluminum systems contains directions for this sort of preparation, which sounds like it may be right up your alley.

Good luck.

[Tim]

Alumiprep is a chemical etcher that cleans the aluminum and aids adhesion of the paint by virtue of the cleaning and etching process.

Mechanical preparation (i.e. sanding) with coarse paper will also achieve clean, bright metal that's appropriate for adhesion of primer. At least one of the Awlgrip aluminum systems contains directions for this sort of preparation, which sounds like it may be right up your alley.

Is your mast currently painted? If you're going over existing paint, first make sure that Awlgrip is compatible with the old (likely). But if you're not dealing with bare metal, your techniques and preparation will be substantially different than some of the Awlgrip bare metal systems described above.

Good luck.