stripping the toe rail

s/v Groovy · Post by **s/v Groovy** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:57 am

The finish has failed on my toe rail and it is time to strip to bare wood. I was planning to start with a scrapper then sand.

There are some places that could be filled, what is a good filler product? Then new finish, what is your favorite varnish?

I believe the toe rail is teak.

suggestions?

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:59 pm

I don't have as much experience with this sort of things as some of the other folks here, but I'm a big fan of reference material, so I'll recommend Rebecca Wittman's "The Brightwork Companion." It's packed with practical information and very well-written.

She has an earlier, more coffee-table-ish (but also practical) larger version of the book, too, called "Brightwork: The Art of Finishing Wood," and I just so happened to be leafing through it the other day. I remember that she said something like "If you're a masochist and have nothing but time, by all means sand off your old varnish." (Except she's funnier and more engaging than I make her sound.) I believe she recommended a heat gun and scraping (although she definitely isn't a one-size-fits-all sort of person, and lists lots of different solutions for a host of problems).

If you don't want to purchase it right now, there's always the library.

Rachel <---- former librarian

Post by **dasein668** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:19 pm

Heat guns work pretty well for removing varnish. Just be careful not to burn the wood. Once the varnish blisters, it will scrape off easily with a sharp carbide scraper. You'll likely still need to do some sanding, but not too much.

I've had good results using Epifanes Woodfinish Gloss for build coats. It seems to be pretty durable, and it has a pleasing-to-me color which seems to even out a little better than the spar varnish. Don't be afraid of the way the stuff looks in the can--kind of a nasty milky amber color. It looks very very very close to spar varnish after application, and is compatible with it.

Once I've got 4 or 5 build coats, I switch to Epifanes Spar Varnish.

This picture of my (mahogany, not teak) coamings is about 5 coats of Woodfinish Gloss along with several seasons of 2-3 maintenance coats per year of spar varnish on top.

As for filling, what sort of filling are you talking about? Damaged areas? Gaps? Open grain?

Post by **Tim** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:03 pm

Heat, scraping, and sanding is the way to go. Depending on your varnish condition, yoy might not even need the heat at all; old varnish scrapes off pretty easily.

Read the fancy books on varnishing if you want the diversion and entertainment (good reasons, those), but the varnish process simply isn't so complicated as to actually need a book to learn how. Pay attention to your preparation and application technique, and you'll get good results.

I recently switched to Captain's varnish, away from Epifanes. It hurt to do, since I have always been a big fan of Epifanes's color and other qualities, but it simply wasn't holding up to even the feeble UV rays of the Maine summer, and tended to finely craze after a month or so. Disappointing.

So we'll see how the Captain's varnish is. As far as application and color, it's very nice. It's a bit thinner than Epifanes, so you need less thinner for good flow. Varnish looks much more golden on teak than on mahogany, where spar varnish appears redder in color.

Good luck. We love before and after pictures!

Post by **dasein668** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:34 pm

The crazing thing is interesting: Tim's had significant problems with that with the Epifanes recently, hence his switch. I have only had it happen to my lazarette hatch, just last season. I'm not sure what the issue is there. The rest of my varnish seems to be holding up without crazing just fine.

Here's an example of the crazing he's talking about. Again, I've only had it happen this once:

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:03 pm

Yeah, okay, maybe that was too nerdy. Of course you don't need a book. On the other hand, maybe for a day when you can't work on the boat and want to read...

I've always used Epifanes myself, in the past, but I did find it challenging to get the thinning/flow thing just right.

I think next time I may try Flagship. I believe that's similar to Captain's (both Z-Spar) but with a touch more UV barrier.

Rachel

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:39 pm

Rachel- I (and Laura) think Captain's flows just a tad easier than Flagship. But for us down here with our sun load, the Flagship is the only way to go. The extra UV protectant is worth it, so we use it inside and out.

But we were recently gifted with slightly more than 3 quarts of Bristol Finish, so we intend to try that out to see how it works. I've had many ask me about it and having never used it I couldn't answer. So we're gonna test it on our stuff so I'll have an answer.

We plan to start with the toe rails and then do the mast.

Post by **Tim** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:20 am

I should add that the crazing seems to occur only on horizontal surfaces, which get the "worst" of the sun: lazarette covers (like the one in Nathan's photo), the top edge of the coaming, etc. Other areas, such as companionway trim and other parts of the coamings, fare just fine.

Whatever the cause, or however minimal the "problem" is, I am unimpressed. And I've heard from others with the same problem. All in all, I felt it was time for a switch. I'm a stubborn Mainer and therefore resistant to change, but I try not to be stupid about it.

Here are several basic keys to decent varnish:

1. Start with smooth, clean wood

2. Thin the first coat 50% to allow it to soak into the wood and provide a good base

3. Apply not too thinly, and not too thickly. Knowing what is right comes with only a tiny bit of experience.

4. Sand between coats

5. There's no such thing as a final coat

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:57 am

Tim wrote: There's no such thing as a final coat

Isn't that the truth! On the bright side, anytime you make a mistake, or someone does something to muff it up, you can console yourself by saying "Thank goodness that was only an intermediate coat," since they all are.

s/v Groovy · Post by **s/v Groovy** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:35 am

Thanks, Looks like Captains is in the lead, some here have recommended Cetol, my dad, cabinet maker in his retirement, suggested Man-O-War, any thoughts? I actually have the book, 'Brightwork, the art of finishing wood', but its time for the scrapper to meet the wood.

There are a few spots where splinters of wood are missing around the scarf joints, and don't know the best filler to use, or not fill and just varnish over the 'gaps'.

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:09 pm

I've had good luck with Interlux's Schooner Varnish in the past.
I'm currently using the Epifanes although the Woodfinish tends to run a little dark, but since I've already done the handrails in it, the toe rails should match.

The girlfriend is really pushing for the clear Cetol on the toe rails (cringe), but I told her that whoever actually does the job, gets to pick the coating.

So this discussion of varnishes reminds me of a little bit of trivia from waaaay back. Does anyone remember Calahan's "Chiltered" varnish? We used to be able to varnish in the winter time with this stuff since you actually kept it chilled in a bucket of ice.