New mast section strong enough? Chainplate build method?

[PenokeeBlue]

Hello again,

Another question on a Triton that I'm looking at with thoughts of purchasing, this time concerning the mast:

The boat was dismasted while sailing two owners ago (ouch!), so it has a new mast. Without being too scientific about it, I'd say the diameter is roughly the same as the original, but perhaps a wee bit smaller. I know the shape probably makes a difference in strength as well, and the new one is a different shape. I'd describe it either as an ellipse with the two small ends cut off or as a rectangle with the two long sides bulged out a bit. Does that make sense?

The mast was stepped, so I couldn't see whether the original masthead fitting was used.

Any other damage I should look for? Bulkheads seemd okay. Mast beam was reinforced on the forward side with an additional bolted-on piece of wood and two side pieces travelling down the forward "door posts."

Looking forward (at the aft side of the bulkhead) I could see a wee bit of a downward "sag" in the overhead, but not a lot.

I don't know which way the mast went over. I could see some parenthesis shaped cracks in the deck gelcoat radiating out from the portside main shroud, which might be from the incident, I suppose. The boat has no forward lowers (actually, none of the Tritons I've looked at have had them, even later ones in the 500s hull number range).

The chainplate and knee below looked okay, except for a small brown line running down from a hole drilled in the bottom of the knee. Kind of looked like water had gotten into knee, rotted some core, then drained out brown. But now that I think of it (in retrospect), they're not attached to the deck, so how would that happen? Anyone know how the knees in the early 60s boats were constructed? I can see the actual metal plate on the outside of the knee.

Thanks again --- Rachel (eagerly awaiting the day when I can actually post about a Triton I *own* :-)

Comments?

[Tim]

...the new one is a different shape. I'd describe it either as an ellipse with the two small ends cut off or as a rectangle with the two long sides bulged out a bit.

That's a typical modern section. Modern spars tend to have somewhat thinner walls and differently-shaped sections, but are engineered to be strong--in part relying on their section shape for the required stiffness. Unless the mast seems ridiculously tiny, I wouldn't worry about it.

The mast was stepped, so I couldn't see whether the original masthead fitting was used.

It's unlikely that it was.

Any other damage I should look for?

Deck-stepped masts have the "advantage", as it were, that they don't tend to damage the boat much if they fall. The original mast probably fell because the owner neglected the rigging, or because one of the old crumbly mast fittings (spreader base, etc) failed. Neglected and weak rigging is the usual cause, but sometimes metal fatigue plays in as well.

Looking forward (at the aft side of the bulkhead) I could see a wee bit of a downward "sag" in the overhead, but not a lot.

That seems to be standard on all Tritons, and may even be an anomaly in the mold or something. I've yet to see one without that flat spot just aft of the mast step.

The chainplate and knee below looked okay, except for a small brown line running down from a hole drilled in the bottom of the knee. Kind of looked like water had gotten into knee, rotted some core, then drained out brown. But now that I think of it (in retrospect), they're not attached to the deck, so how would that happen? Anyone know how the knees in the early 60s boats were constructed? I can see the actual metal plate on the outside of the knee.

Water can get in the knees easily through the chainplate boltholes, or from condensation from the deck above seeping into the unprotected tops of the chainplate knees. Some moisture within is common, and tends to leak out through the bottom. It takes a lot of moisture to ruin that knee, so I wouldn't automatically feel that's a huge issue. Further investigation would be prudent, though...just to confirm or refute.

The knees are solid oak cut to shape and then heavily glassed to the hulls. Cutting the knee out of hull #100 as I stripped the interior was a job and a half--the tabbing was 5/16"+ thick, and the knee was very solid despite signs of deterioration at the top (exposed after I removed the deck) end. There were signs of the same brown stains beneath, but the knee was definitely solid.

Be sure to check the chainplates and bolts. These tend to corrode--this isn't a deal breaker, but something you should check either before or after you buy.

[bcooke]

As Tim says, the glass over the chainplate knees is pretty thick and is what is handling the loads from the chainplates. The wood just gives the shape to mold the fiberglass to. That said, I tore mine out and replaced them because the thought of rotten wood where I couldn't see it bugged me. Plus, I needed to replace the interior around the knees and didn't want to go back a few years later, tearing out the new stuff apart because I later decided to replace the core in the knees. I wouldn't worry too much about them.

Sounds like you are ready for a surveyor. Even if you don't buy the boat, a couple of hours poking around with a good surveyor is a huge learning experience. I can recomend the guy I used if you are in the Northeast.

-Britton

[PenokeeBlue]

Thanks for your additional comments. I'd love a surveyor recommendation for the NE. I don't know that I'd get a survey otherwise. By that I mean that I'd agree that a few hours with a good surveyor would be a great learning experience and money well spent. That being said, two out of three I've gotten in the past (not in the northeast) didn't do as good a job as I did, and were generally unsatisfactory.

So I'd love to find a "known" good surveyor, especially one who doesn't just say "all the usual problems of an older boat..."

And there *are* no boathooks or lifejackets :-)

--- Rachel

[bcooke]

I'd love a surveyor recommendation for the NE

I will private message you the name of a true Triton expert and all around good surveyor. He gets kinda busy but can usually find the time for a Triton.

-Britton

[PenokeeBlue]

Hi - Say I'd *love* that surveyor name, but I'm not sure I can get a private message. I'm actually signed up under my real name of "Rachel," but don't remember my password and sent in for a new one.

I actually (stupidly, accidentally) just used the PenokeeBlue name because it was a name I'd had for a Yahoo account and I got confused.

Could you just send it to <[email protected]

PS Do these anti spam things work? Or have they figured out to just delete caps... :-)

--- Rachel

[Rachel]

Okay, this is a bummer -- I guess I don't need the surveyor info. after all. The guy who had the boat for sale, who offered (his idea) to "hold" the boat for me over the weekend, while I checked into the (false) keel-crack issue, just e-mailed me to say he sold the boat to a guy for ... the same price I would have paid. Doesn't that just frost you?

And the one I had "next in line" to go look at is "no longer available."

Drat, drat, drat!

So, if anyone knows of a Triton for sale that has top-opening cockpit lockers let me know, please. I've got time off work, am willing to drive just about anywhere, and am very ready to find a boat!

Thanks for all your information; I have a feeling it will come in handy sometime.

--- Rachel (was posting under PenokeeBlue)

[bcooke]

I don't think you got the private message and the email address got rejected. I will just post it here.

"I was having some fun at your expense I am afraid. The excellent surveyor I was thinking of is Tim. He did my boat and took a lot of time going over many things including problem areas on Tritons in general and not just the boat we were looking at. We talked not only about problem areas but how to resolve them as well. He is an excellent resource and really likes the boats and knows them well. After working with him I wouldn't look anywhere else.

I knew most of the others on the forum would know whom I was alluding to and I thought you would pick up on it as well. Good luck in your search. It may seem frustrating now when you can't pick one out but you will find the right one and it will all be worth it. It took me about six months and it sounds like I had a similar struggle with boats being available and then not available and then... Trust me, it will work out and it will feel great :-)"

-Britton

P.S.

Merry Christmas Tim, heheheh Try not to let it go to your head ;-)

[A30_John]

Rachel,

While you're looking for a boat, you might consider looking at the Alberg 30. They are a close cousin to the Triton. Carl Alberg designed the A30 shortly after the Triton and they have a good reputation.

BTW, Tim also surveyed my boat and I was very pleased with the service.

Good luck.

[Rachel]

I wondered if you might be thinking of Tim - and I'd certainly be thrilled to have him survey any boat I get serious about - but since it was in Baltimore, and he's in Maine...

Of course *that's* a moot point now. Grrrr...

As for the A-30 - they are nice and I'd be very happy to have one, but it's just that much harder to find one in my price range that isn't a complete derelict. I'd say that in general - from my shopping anyway - they seem to be a few thousand more for the equivalent boat than a Triton.

But if someone out there has one that needs a good home and isn't too expensive... :-)

Anyway, thanks to everyone for all the feedback.

--- Rachel

[bcooke]

I agree about the A30. I spent a long time looking for one. I love the extra space but they appear to cost about twice as much as a similar condition Triton. In the end, I mostly cruise alone or with one other person so the space issue wasn't absolutely important and with the money I saved I could buy some nice gear (windvane, bigger sail inventory, etc.) and could afford to take several months off work to play with the new boat.

I do know of a sailing A30 (needs lots of TLC and a new set of sails soon, decks appeared okay, old gas motor) that the owner was listing last spring for $11k. He was kinda anxious to sell then and I was tempted but my $8k Triton in better condition with excellent sails won out in the end. I know the A30 is still available because I drove by it last week (Newburyport, MA). Unfortunately, I am packing for a month long trip to Dallas and don't have time to look up the info now. If you are still looking next month (hopefully not) I can stop by and talk to the guy.

Tim will have to answer himself how far he will travel but sometimes an excuse to warmer climates can work wonders (it is snowing/freezing rain today). Better yet, I bet if you baked some brownies (no sexism implied, I bake brownies too) and brought them to Yarmouth... If I volunteer Tim any further I am going to get booted off this forum :-)

Hopefully my transgressions will be forgiven by the time I return in mid-January. My boat is safely covered and protected from the Nor'easters, I am packing my summer clothes, and I am outa here!

Merry Christmas all, I am switching to lurker status... ('bout time I shut up huh?) Remember, I will be scraping bottoms for food scraps when I return so if you know of anything...

-Britton