Stuffing Box

[Jim H]

Greetings Tritonians:
I have this summer joined your dedicated ranks. with the purchase No. 266 in Sag Harbor, NY. While the boat and Atomic 4 are in surprizingly good shape, I am planning amajor refit for the coming year ...naturaly , I'm trying to learn from your experiences.
Lately, I have been finding water in my bilges, and I am almost certain that it is coming from the stuffing box. The only obvious access I can find to tighten and re-pack the box is from a round Bronze inspection port about 7" wide in the middle of the cock pit. I can bearly get one arm down there. What have I missed? Do I dismantle galley cabinets? I'm sure this problem has been solve by many resourseful Triton owners, please clue me in.
Jim H No.266 Heart's Ease (formerly Wylly) on the Hudson

[kaynee30]

Hi Jim...welcome to the affliction.
First thing, I reckon, is to find out for sure if the stuffer is leaking a lot:
Stick your arm down the hole and cup your hand and inch or two below under the packing nut; you can feel the drops hitting your hand. You should be getting about one drip every 30 seconds to one minute. Then turn the flange of the engine's output coupling to ensure the shaft turns with little friction (trans in neutral). Give it a few full turns and check the drip rate again.
If a lot of water is getting in, use two pair of locking Visegrip pliers, one 8" and one 10" should do it. Set them up one-handed..one each on the large packing nut, one on the lock nut in a 'vee' configuration that will allow you to squeeze them together and break the locknut from the packnut. (stuffing box wrenches are useless unless you have full, easy access and three hands).
Back the locknut toward the rear ( should turn in your hand...no wrench needed) and slowly cinch up the packing nut using hand pressure only... a little bit at a time...until you get a 1 DPM rate. Turn the shaft again to check for free rotation with little friction.
Cinch the locknut back onto the packnut using light pressure with the wrenches. (a little PB blaster applied to the assembly before you start might be a good idea if it's greened-up some).
If you can't stem a fast flow, the packing needs replacing, or the shaft is severely worn. If the shaft binds, something else is wrong.
If you need to repack, you're probably gonna have to pull the galley out to access the glandnut. There are instructions on the MIR site of NTA site for that. If your gas tank is starboard, I'm not sure you'll have enough room to get to the stuffer that way......Do you still have the Ice Box portside?
I find it's normal for the flow to increase slightly during and after running....then it slows to the pre-set rate after a while.
Long-range, you can replace the little port on the cockpit floor with a larger hatch (Glissando, Whorlwind... MIR), or alter the interior furniture at the engine-space bulkhead for horizontal access. (Kaynee)
Hope this helps.

[Jim H]

Ciao Kaynee:
Thanks for the insight. I was able to confirm that leak was indeed from the stuffing box. My hand under the shaft confirms a steady drizzle.
The bilge will be about half filled in 24 hours and I have never owned aboat that did this....then agin, I've never owned a boat that is 42 year old. I did try using the vice gripes howeveer the box was "greened up" and wouldn't budge....I tried WD 40 but since I'm still in the water, I did not want to 'mussle' it for fear that I would make things much worse.
I tthink I can solve this problem but the boat will be on the hard and that little hatch will be replaced with something large and easy.
Jim H

[Tim]

Please don't underestimate the potential danger of a badly-leaking stuffing box. This is the sort of "small" problem that probably leads to more at-dock sinkings than any other, except perhaps rotten hoses. Overreliance on bilge pumps to handle this seemingly nuisance source of bilge water frequently ends in tragedy. This has been documented time and again.

It is quite likely that your packing is past the point of stemming the flow, regardless of how tightly you wind the nuts together; it has a finite lifespan, and over the years it simply loses any abilty to be further compressed. Therefore, you get increased leaks as a result.

The greater the difficulty of accessing the stuffing box, the higher the liklihood of it being neglected. When you haul, I recommend you also change the stuffing box hose and clamps, regardless of what they look like. (And I bet they look--and are--old anyway...). Oh, and while you're at it, check the Cutless bearing and engine alignment! (Welcome to the world of "while you're at it" that is Triton ownership!) ;<)

BTW, pick up a can of "PB Blaster" from your local autoparts store. Many of us have found this to be the best penetrating lubricant by far. It's not even in the same class as WD-40. Try it on those obstinant packing nuts.

[dasein668]

Just want to chime in and second--or, well, now maybe its "third" or "fourth"--the comment about PB Blaster. The stuff is a miracle in a can.

[kaynee30]

....I tried WD 40 but since I'm still in the water, I did not want to 'mussle' it for fear that I would make things much worse.


I thought about that after I posted. Nothing can ruin a day like a ruptured stuffinbox hose. Good call...and what Tim said. Yep.
However, if you don't mind getting wet, Fastbottoms (?)once mentioned putting a plastic bag over the prop and tying it around the shaft tube to repack the stuffer in the water. Works in my head.
Jeff

[Figment]

I've also recently read (can't recall where) the idea of using wax from a toilet flange ring. I believe the idea is to get underwater and smear the wax nice and thick around the shaft at the stern tube. I suppose that this wax would eventually go away in use.

To borrow from Jeff; this works in my head. You're in Sag Harbor, so I assume you're going to haul out for the winter fairly soon? Perhaps you should just haul a bit sooner.

To echo what Tim said; If the stuffing is beyond its useful life, I'd not be surprised to hear that the hose is on its last thread, and that the cutless bearing is shot as well.

PB Blaster deserves its own honorable mention in Tools&Techniques.

[Tim]

I keep a couple wax rings (toilet) on board the boat for emergencies. When buying, choose the ones without the integral plastic/rubber valve thingie--you can get just the wax ring.

These things are highly moldable and very sticky, so they have a high liklihood of sticking to whatever you need them to. And cheap, too. They're a good addition for any emergency kit.

[Dave, 397]

I'm thinking that we must have an East Coast-West Coast phenomena on the penetrants...I've never used PB Blaster, but I have used an industrial penetrant called Kroil...loving known by many as "Skunk P--s" for its pungent, uh, earthy smell. Parts just nearly fall apart after a good shot or two. Maybe the same stuff, who knows?
Dave

[bcooke]

Rather than start a new thread I thought I would just tag onto this old one.

Anyone have some thoughts about using a dripless packing?

-Britton

[Tim]

Anyone have some thoughts about using a dripless packing?

People rave about dripless stuffing boxes, and I considered one. My hesitation was that I felt a traditional stuffing box would be easier to fudge back together in an emergency; almost anything could be used as temporary packing. If a disaster happened with a dripless box, jury rigging might be a bit more difficult.

Or maybe you're referring to the newer square (teflon-based, I think)packing material that you can use in any traditional stuffing box, and which is supposed to be virtually drip-free. I have also heard good things about this, and may well use it when the time comes to repack my stuffing box.

[David]

I've had it in my boat for 10 years, with a completely dry bilge. The stuffing box has only been adjusted initially when I splashed her, but not since. It is great stuff, the material is very fiberous as if it's impregnated with strands of cloth. The kit comes with a film can full of blue teflon lub as well. Cost for my 3/4-inch shaft was a little over $60.00. I believe West sells it now, althought I bought the stuff from the manufacturer in St. Petersburg.

David

[JonnyBoats]

A source of excellent information on props, shafts, stuffing boxes and packing is Tom Norton of H & H Propellers in Brunswick, Maine. They stock both traditional flax packing as well as teflon packing. They have dozens of different kinds of packing and if you take your old packing in they can match it for you. Packing for a sailboat should cost you just a few dollars (probably less than $10), so there is no reason to skimp on this item.

As for "dripless shaft seals", Tom explained to me that the reason so many newer boats have this is simply because most manufactures do not provide good access to the packing gland. If you have a traditional gland, then it needs periodic maintenance (e.g. re-packing), and the Coast Guard requires that it be accessible. For some reason, a "dripless seal" is considered maintenance free and ready access is not required by law.

As you can well imagine, if the choice is between making a sailboat that sleeps four and provides excellent access to all mechanical systems or making one that sleeps six with virtually no access, manufactures often simply make what the market demands.

My understanding is that if one has good access, a traditional packing gland is safer, cheaper and generally superior.