Marine Electronics

[george]

Is there a preferred brand?

I will need at least a VHF radio I guess. What do you guys have?

What else would you put on a "minimalist" list? A depthsounder?

If you know of any used-type models that are noteworthy I can start scouring e-Bay!

Thanks for any input.

[Tim]

Personally, I like Garmin for GPS, Furuno for Radar, and "whatever" for VHF; I think the VHF is of very limited use, and the cheap ones work as well as the better ones. This is my opinion based on the way I use one (or don't use one); I don't "chat" on the VHF, and anchor out when cruising (eliminating the need to call marinas), so there is virtually no need for it. As a "save me, I'm dying" device, don't ever rely on it. Even good ones aren't very good. It's likely that a basic one will suit your needs nicely.

I have the basic West Marine version on Glissando, and only use it to call the launch. I see little reason to buy premium VHF radios, but if I were scouring Ebay, I'd look for Icom first, Standard Horizon second. Be sure to know what these items (any electronics) are worth new from a reliable source before buying on Ebay, so that you're sure it's truly a deal.

Depthsounders are handy, but have an irritating habit of cutting out when you need it the most. That said, I have a Horizon depth that has worked flawlessly for 4 seasons now. Knotmeters are kind of useless since the impellers tend to foul up quickly, and you get a more accurate true speed reading from your GPS anyway (over the ground). I still like to have the knotmeter, but by midseason it has stopped working. My knotmeter is also by Horizon.

Glissando's Electronics

Be wary of buying much in the way of electronics till your boat is nearly ready to be launched. Electronics become outdated quickly, and it's best to wait till you really need it before you buy it.

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi George,


The most important piece of safety gear on a boat is a good completely waterproof small handheld VHF radio. Whenever I'm in the boat by myself I have one on a lanyard through my belt. ICOM makes just about the best marine radios in this department. I would get the ICOM IC-M32 with the optional battery pack that takes 6 AA batteries. The rechargable NiCad battery pack it comes with is extremely good but I like having both on hand. Cost is about $135. Don't buy this used on EBay it's too important.

For general communications it's tough to beat a good fixed mount VHF radio. The best value out there is the ICOM IC-M402. Price $175. Combined with a good 3db masthead antenna and good quality coaxial cable it should give you a 20 mile range easy. I would also buy this new.

There are a ton of depthsounder options out there. You can also use a fishfinder if you want. I like the Standard Horizons gear for depthsounders, but that's just personal preference.

I addition to the above I would get a handheld GPS unit. For the money it's tough to beat the Garmin GPS76 unit. I would also get a mount and a power cable for it that you can tie into the boat's house bank. These things love AA batteries. Ungodly useful though.


Good luck,

George Jones
KG4RGM

[Figment]

Though I have an Icom M-502, I agree that the cheaper radios work as well as the expensive ones. The expensive ones might last longer in exposed locations (like on a center-console skiff), but in the protection of the cabin, any unit is as durable as any other.
Don't skimp on the antenna, though. The best radio in the world isn't worth a fart in a breeze if the antenna is compromised.

George, I'm curious, why do you view a handheld vhf as such a critical item? Other than communicating with race committees, I've never had much use for them.

I really should get a depthsounder. I've been ok so far simply because I know my local waters very well and haven't yet had opportunity to venture into unfamiliar areas.

I wholeheartedly agree with Tim.... wait until you're nearly done. The churn rate on these techno devices is just too high. Also, chose your source with care. A $25 savings feels awfully foolish when something goes wrong and you need to spend three days on the phone just chasing down ANYONE who can give a straight answer.

Resist the lure of endless bells and whistles. This is particularly important with regard to the handheld GPS. Get the simplest unit you can stand. Despite the many many features on my Garmin 72, I really only ever use it for speed, range/bearing, and tide information. I could spend thousands on a GPS and still only use it for speed, range/bearing, and tides.

[Jason K]

I must say that I agree with George that a VHF radio is a critical device. Figment, I've read many of your postings on this forum with great interest and I've learned a great deal about Tritons from your insights, but I disagree with your assessment that a VHF is only good for communicating with race committees.

I use mine most often to contact bridge tenders. However, I have also used it to respond to distress calls (OK, for a powerboater who had an oil crises when his filter supposedly fell off or ruptured), to hail friends near a rendezvous, and for the weatherband, among other things. There is also a peace of mind factor that accompanies that electronic tether to the shore and nearby craft.

I won't dispute that there are many other shipboard systems (such as a well insulated ice chest) that have a higher priority than a VHF, particulary for daysailor types like me. Yet given the low cost and the indispensability in some emergency situations, prudence dictates carrying one aboard.

Edit:
Ahh, just read your post Figment with a bit more attention. Must be the sun cooking my brain. Are you distinguishing between a handheld VHF and a mounted one? Do you consider a mounted one superflous as well?

[JonnyBoats]

and "whatever" for VHF; I think the VHF is of very limited use, and the cheap ones work as well as the better ones.

Well life jackets (PFDs) and fire extinguishers are of limited use as well, but I don't recommend leaving home without them.

If you believe as Eric Hiscock did that

it was your decision to go out on the big ocean and you shouldn?t expect anyone else to risk their lives rescuing you from the situation you got yourself into.

then perhaps you don't want a radio for such things as calling for help, getting weather reports hearing information broadcasts from the Coast Guard (things like buoys off station, lighthouses with improper or no lights etc.) or being able to help other mariners when they call for help, not to mention being able to get a bridge to open for you.

Personally I'd sooner forgo an engine than a radio. That being said, any good quality used radio should be fine, you don't need a lot of bells and whistles. As has been pointed out, a good antenna (top of mast) and good coax are vitially important. Pay particular attention to all the coax connections to insure no moisture can get into the coax.

A handheld VHF has its pluses and minuses. Since its power is limited and its antenna low, its range is limited. On the other hand if your boat sinks, or water floods your bilges (and battery), it may be all you have that works. Having any type of radio that is waterproof is a definite plus.

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi All,


Why do I think waterproof handheld VHF radios are important...

Well, I do spend a lot of time talking to race committee boats ( 38 races a year ) and sometime even act as committee boat myself. I tend to use the fixed mount VHF for that though. It's also nice to get NOAA weather bulletins along with special weather alerts. We get really nasty thunderstorm lines from time to time and NOAA is really good about sending detailed info about 30 minuites before one is going to hit so you can prepare the boat. One of the nice benefits of being on the Chesapeake Bay is that there are lots of government agencies out protecting the fishing, commercial traffic, and U.S. Navy fleets. Once again all that kind of stuff can be handled with the fixed mount unit.

Back to handhelds... For me it's the unexpected stupid thing when I'm alone on the boat. I tend to use the autopilot a fair bit and the idea of the boat sailing away while I float in my life preserver isn't a pleasant one. Especially if I'm on an extended fishing trip in the late fall and the water's getting chilly. Or if I'm clipped in and find myslef hanging upside down along the side of the boat. Or even clipped in and being dragged behind the boat. You know the crazy stupid stuff that you're never really prepared for. Because of this I always wear one of those inflatable life preservers around my waist and I always carry an ICOM IC-M32 on a lanyard. It's completely waterproof and small enough to fit in my pocket. I can operate it with the lanyard still attached to my belt. I know the range of a handheld VHF, especially if you're transmitting while floating in the water, isn't very good. But I'll bet you'll be glad you have it.

Once again, being on the Chesapeake helps because there are usually lots of people around. There's also a Coast guard radio tracking station nearby with 200' tall VHF antennas ( in addition to lots of other antennas ) that appears to be able to hear anything transmited on the entire lower bay no matter how weak the signal. So that's a nice safety net.

The handheld is also nice because it's a backup to the fixed mount unit and operates on a separate power supply.


Hope this helps,

George Jones
C&C 40 "Delphinus"
KG4RGM

[Tim]

Radios seem to be one of "those" topics: one which, for whatever reason, people seem to come down very clearly on one side or the other. Let me begin by first apologizing for even laying the foundation for this fierce debate, if indeed I did.

Before this thread goes off into VHF wars, let's cool it now by saying that one must make their own choice as to how important they think the device is for their own purposes, and purchase accordingly.

Well life jackets (PFDs) and fire extinguishers are of limited use as well, but I don't recommend leaving home without them.

I hardly think that's a valid comparison, nor did I ever even imply anything of the sort in my above posting. Life jackets and fire extinguishers are important as a means of ensuring one's own self-sufficiency and as a means of first defense against potential shipboard problems, whether one is 1000 miles to sea or 1 mile. A life jacket or fire extinguisher may very well be the difference between life and death; a VHF, whatever its plusses might be, does not fit into this category as I see it, and it's clearly stated as my opinion based on how I use it. There's a huge difference between basic safety procedures and equipment that one uses to help save themselves, and those that by their very nature request or require the assistance of others.

Now, that said, let me be clear that there are plenty of uses for a VHF, including many valid uses as a safety device. I don't think anyone is truly disputing that. Sure, I listen to weather, which can be important. I occasionally use it for some of the other non-essential things listed, but are any of them truly in the same category as life jackets? Of course it's important for going under bridges, but if you don't do that regularly (or ever), that need not apply (and even if so, is that a critical safety use?). I admit to being poor at monitoring the safety channels, so relaying others' calls is not something I'm likely to do, since my radio probably isn't on. Crucify me now.

Despite all this, I believe in Hiscock's mantra, myself, and I believe that a VHF should not be relied upon to save your skin. It may have valid use in that capacity, and in many circumstances will prove itself worthy. Never did I advocate leaving the VHF ashore, but I still maintain that simpler ones will do the job equally as well.

I equate the VHF more with an engine on a sailboat: both are useful when their limitations are understood and respected, and if one tends not to rely on their functionality when things get tough, they are both important onboard devices. Both also tend to get abused in their ultimate capacity, usefulness, and reliance upon by unprepared boaters. Use a VHF (or engine, in this analogy) to help you get out of trouble...just don't expect it to get you out of trouble.

Others are welcome, and free, to disagree, and to act accordingly--and I respect their views as I hope they might respect mine. There is no more point in debating these personal views than there might be in debating one's political views.

[Figment]

Yes, I was drawing a distinction between fixed vhf radios and handheld units.
Though I've owned several handheld units, I really only regard them as an item of convenience, not as essential safety gear as George does.
This is because I don't do the kind of sailing George does. I don't sail alone that often, and I don't have an autopilot. Under those criteria, yeah it absolutely would be part of my personal safety gear.

VHF units are inexpensive (in the grand scheme of boats) and easily maintained. I feel, therefore, that anyone who goes afloat without one does so very irresponsibly.
Stuff happens, to us and to others, and this simple ability to communicate can save lives.

The other edge of that sword: I feel it is the responsibility of every boater to do everything in their power to see that they never need that rescue.

[radicalcy]

Does anyone know if Navico is still in business? I have a Navico depthsounder and the display led is shot, but the transducer is glassed into the leading edge of the keel, and I'd hate to have to add another one. I have no idea what the frequency of the transducer is.

[Jason K]

Navico was purchased by Simrad in 1998, which is itself a subsidiary of the Norwegian company Konnsberg. The web address for Simrad is:

http://www.simrad.com

These are the US distributors listed on the web site, you may want to give them a call:

Simrad Inc USA
19210 33rd Avenue West, Suite A
Lynnwood WA 98036
Tlf: +14257788821
Fax: +1425 771 7211

Simrad Inc USA
1500 NW 1st Street, Suite 1-E
Dania FL 33004
Tlf: +19549227700
Fax: +1954 922 0707

[JonnyBoats]

the display led is shot

As you can well imagine, the led is a component of the final produce that was most probably manufactured by another company. They are cheap and pleantyful on the surplus market, and in fact you might even be able to get one like it at Radio Shack.

If you are handy with electronics, you might try just replacing the led yourself and save a bunch of dollars.

[Robert The Gray]

One of the main reasons for me to have the handheld vhf is to follow the vessel traffic in the bay whilse sailing. the shipping in sf bay can go north south or west and even some east, so it is helpful to know where the different ships are heading. it does take some time to understand the language and place names of the reports.