Boottop

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Dan

Boottop

Post by Dan »

I saw the pictures of the daysailor in the water. That must have made you long to get her under sail. What a milestone!! Looks Great!!

Tim, you wrote,
Now I can mark and paint the waterline and boottop, and really make the boat look more finished.
I have a question, Where do you paint the stripe in reference to your new, or an existing water line scribe for that matter?

Is the boottop centered on the scribe line, or do you put the scribe at the top or at the bottom of the stripe?

There is no scribe line that I can find on my boat so I will have to dip her into the water and mark it also. Just don't know where to put the stripe.
Thanks,
Dan
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Post by Tim »

Dan,

Funny you should ask. I just spent the past two days (yes, just about all day both days) marking and taping the hull for the double boot stripe and bottom paint. For me, this is a time-intensive and meticulous process, as I am very particular about how boottops look--and the double stripe, with a hull-colored space between the lower stripe and the bottom paint, required striking five lines on each side of the hull. It simply takes time to mark it out, and then tape it that many times. A single stripe whose bottom edge equals the top of the bottom paint is obviously much easier to strike, with only one line required per side.

To me, the look of the boot top can make or break any boat. They have to be straight, parallel with the water, and must properly account for the trompe l'oiel caused by the curvature of the hull. When done correctly, it's well worth the effort. A slight sheer to the top of the stripe can look OK in some circumstances, but only on traditional boats. It's easy to overdo this.

You can read more about my methodology here, or in Sunday's Daysailor logs, but to answer your more basic question:
Dan wrote:I have a question, Where do you paint the stripe in reference to your new, or an existing water line scribe for that matter?
I think the bottom paint should extend 2" or so above the true waterline--even more in longer boats or boats with high topsides. Not only does this look better, but it reduces or eliminates fouling of the boottop (which looks as bad as can be...). 2" of exposed bottom paint looks about right on a 25-30' sailboat. Then, your boottop would go above this 2" mark.

Do you not have any pre-existing paint lines to go by? If not, and you want an accurate waterline, all you can do is launch the boat, as you say.

Assuming you want your bottom edge of your boottop to butt up against the bottom paint (that is, no hull-color space between), the top edge of the new boot will end up a certain distance above the new bottom paint line, depending on how thick you want your boottop. The actual width of the stripe will vary as you proceed fore and aft, though less so on your boat than on a boat with a curvy counter stern and flared bow sections like a Triton. It's important to do this, or your stripe will appear to droop fore and aft.

There's no hard and fast rule as to how much you need to manipulate the stripe. It depends on the shape of the hull. When viewed from eye level, the stripe should appear straight to the eye, even if in reality it makes odd curves and narrows or widens.

Check out what things look like beneath a Triton counter. The future boot stripes are the white areas between the gray tape...not the tape itself.

Image

But viewed from the site, the stripes appear to be straight.

Image

Sorry for the ramble. Boottops are one of my "things". I always say, there are no bad people...just people with bad boottops.

Don't let this (below) happen to you! This is the worst-looking thing I've ever seen. (And to top it off, his cover is tied to a jackstand...)

Ouch! My eyes! Look away, look away!
Image
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Post by dasein668 »

Tim, thanks for that last photo. I'll send you the ophthalmologist's bill.
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Post by A30_John »

Tim, is that duct tape you used to mark the boot top for painting?

If yes, I'm curious about your choice of tape. Why not blue painter's masking tape? How will you remove the adhesive left on the hull from the duct tape?

If no, what kind of tape is it?
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Post by dasein668 »

I can guarantee he didn't use duct tape!

It's the silver 3M #225 masking tape?good for 30 days in outdoor usage. It's the only tape to use if you care about masking. The blue stuff is junk, comparatively?it really doesn't hold up to heavy paint/varnish build-up. The 225 is pricey but worth every penny and more.

Here's the stuff at West.

You can get it at a better price through other sources though, like [url=http://www.hamiltonmarine.com"]Hamilton Marine[/url].
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Post by A30_John »

Thanks. I'll try it next time. I've typically used blue masking tape and then rushed like crazy to get it off before the paint dries.
John
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Post by Tim »

dasein668 wrote:It's the silver 3M #225 masking tape
Yup!

That's over two full rolls you're looking at on there, too. Sigh.

I like the silver tape for several reasons:
  • It is strong and stretches well
    It is easy to remove, even with heavy layers of Awlgrip (multiple coats) over the top
    It holds up well and releases easily for a very long time (30 days is the outdoor life...indoors, it could be longer)
    It leaves no adhesive residue at all
    It sticks well to a variety of surfaces
    It has an interesting rubbery smell that I sort of like
    It works quite well against paint bleeding for all types of paints and varnish
The greenish, thin Fineline tape is theoretically the best for striping, but it doesn't work very well if left in place for more than a day or two, and doesn't peel off as easily. When painting multiple coats, this might mean a lot of untaping and retaping. The silver tape may not ultimately provide quite as crisp a line, but if the edges are carefully pressed down, it is just about as good, and the tape is much easier to use overall.
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Post by A30_John »

Thanks Tim. I'll soon being painting the dinghy I built last winter. This will provide an excellent opportunity to experiment and learn first hand the properties of this tape. I'm glad I asked :-).
John
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Post by Invitation »

Just a quick note about "special tape". Try plastic electrical tape sometime, it's inexpensive and works extremelly well. The special "blue, green tapes are also good but they charge you for it and good old electrical tape works fantastic. Practical Sailor did a test of all these tapes and electrical tape was one of the best ones. If it had "marine application" on the outside of the roll it would cost 10 times as much.
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Post by George ( C&C 40 ) »

Hi Guys,

I've never tried regular electrical tape but I do agree with Tim that the 3M #225 "Long Mask" silver is head and shoulders above the blue and green tapes for doing boot stripe work. I love that stuff.

George
Dan

Post by Dan »

Wow, lots of good info here. Thanks everyone.
I do not have any real lines to go by. Just an unfinished paint job by the PO. I didn't realize that you can do anything you want when it comes to the boottop. I hadn't really given it any thought.
Image
After your explination, I looked at several boats and found it's a personnel choice. Some boats don't have any.
As alyways, Thanks for your help,
Dan
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Post by Tim »

Dan,

Since you have a pre-existing line for your antifouling paint, striking the boottop immediately above would be straightforward.

If I were you, I'd strike a nice white line about 2-1/2" high amidships, leaving 1"between the top of the red antifouling and the bottom of the new stripe. A cove stripe along the bottom edge of that molded sheer strake would also dress things up. Obviously this photo is a rough manipulation...

Image

You are right: boottops are a personal choice. I think boats look plain and boring without and would personally always choose one on any boat, workboat or other. But there is no hard and fast rule saying it's needed, or how they should look.
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Post by bcooke »

Hey, could you show me that boat in a forest green while you are at it?...

Now that I know what you and Nathan are capable of creating with digital photographs I am beginning to wonder if your boats really exist outside of cyber-space at all. Maybe you just draw pretty pictures and make up stories for us to read; like the Pied-Piper, leading us on into economic ruin under the false hope of recreating a boat that only really exists as a digital photo.

Oh yeah, I have seen the boats in person. Or did I...

-Britton
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Post by Noah »

But it's really fun to strike a boot on a curvy lapstrake boat. Man was it a trick to get my Folkboat to look correct...

And Tim, don't worry about only using two rolls of that tape. Re-doing my Hinckley I used 13 this spring...

Image
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Post by Tim »

Of course, that two rolls is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the whole project's usage!

Tape and sandpaper are two of the "hidden" costs of any project!

Sweet Hinckley--thanks for the photo!
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Post by bcooke »

Sweet Hinckley--thanks for the photo!
Ditto, and where have you been hiding that one? If I had known there was a Hinckley owner on the forum I would have cleaned up before posting this morning :-)

I am partial to folkboats too so feel free to post some more photos...

-Britton
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Post by Shark »

Hidden costs ... you said it Tim.

I stripped and completely redid the bottom of my boat this spring (Hope I never have to do that again .. at least on this boat!) and was simply AMAZED at how much money I spent on sandpaper!

On the plus side I only used 3 rolls of masking tape.

Lyman
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Post by Noah »

Well the Hinckley is a woody, but I try to do my best. I figure I have about 400 hours in her this spring. She is for sale if anyone is interested.

http://www.morebutter.com/hinckley/

All the pics on that site are old...

And my folkboat...I got her for free a bunch of years ago, and pretty much went through her. She is now sitting in a barn awaiting more work.
Image

I don't have any pictures further along in the restoration process than this:
Image
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Post by Noah »

And one more of the Hinckley just for kicks:
Image

I don't have any of her in the water yet this year, but if it ever stops raining I will get some.

Noah

BTW, that's a Graves Constellation behind her. A really sweet boat in perfect condition.
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Post by Commanderpete »

You have good taste, Sir

Love this photo

Image
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Post by bcooke »

Yeah, I have always liked Folkboats. If they had more interior space I would have one but a couple of days cooped up in those cabins would have sent me over the edge (it seems I got there anyway). The only surviving Folkboat from the original OSTAR race was restored/rebuilt in my boatyard last year (WB#180). They are great boats but surprisingly not that well built- at least that one wasn't. I figure a Triton is kinda like a Folkboat , in concept at least, with standing headroom.

As for Hinkley owners... When I think of a them, I think of a Hinkley picnic boat I saw around Southwest harbor with the owner in the back sipping a martini or something and a uniformed crew driving the boat around. I could never understand the fun in that... I guess my image of Hinckley owners will have to change now; or do you (Noah) have uniformed crew running around on your decks too? :-)

And getting back to bootstripes...

XXXXXXXXX

Actually, after re-reading Tim's description, I realized he said what I was thinking so I think I will just shut up now.

-Britton
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Post by Peter »

I've always loved Folkboats ... even got as far as building the shed and lofting the plans, until I realized the true cost of building a new wooden boat from scratch.
Here are two of my favorite shots:
Image
A lapstrake Folkboat has fifteen strakes ... and they're all visible in the above shot!


Image
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Post by Noah »

The lack of room in the Folkboat was enough to drive me a bit nuts. It was far too small down there, I have no idea how the Europeans go cruising with 2 adults and 2 kids for a week in one...

The other problem with the Folkboat is that they need wind. When it's cranking they go well, but when it's light they just don't want to move. I "turbo-ed" mine with a Melges 24 fulley battened Kevlar main, which gave it lots more horse power. I also added a bow tacked Asym spin for downind work, which helped greatly.

All in all, they are great boats, and I had some of my best moments of sailing on mine.

Noah
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Post by Rachel »

I just had to post this photo somewhere because the boat's owner took such a ... creative ... approach to the bootstripe on the counter.

Image

The boat is an Ariel and is listed on e-Bay right now. The added rubrail sure makes it look different. Here's a link to the listing, if anyone wants to look at it:

http://tinyurl.com/fnov9

--- Rachel
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Post by Tim »

Wow. That boat is rough.

That boottop is so miguided I can't even begin to comment!
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Post by Rachel »

Tim wrote:Wow. That boat is rough.

That boottop is so miguided I can't even begin to comment!
But I knew you would anyway ;-)

And come on, it just needs a good clean-up down below!

(We have to laugh, don't we? Sure beats the alternative. I love knowing my posts like the above will fall on sympathetic ears here :-)

I wonder what that transom area would look like in the water? What would happen to the corners of the bootstripe?

--- R.
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Post by Figment »

Musta been painted by a powerboater. You know, the guys who paint up to the chine, even as it rises two feet above the waterline....
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