About to start cutting holes in the cabin sole

[Todd Dunn]

This is my first post on the Plastic Classic forum. I am looking forward to tons of helpful suggestions.

Last summer I noticed that the cabin sole stepped mizzen mast on my Allied Princess ketch was slowly sinking into the balsa cored cabin sole. That seems to me to be a sure sign that the basla under the mast step was wet and collapsing. So, this weekend I plan to remove the mast step and start cutting into the cabin sole. The plan at this point is to continue the incisions until I hit dry undamaged balsa and then rebuild the damaged area with layers of woven roving set in epoxy. The only problem as I see it is that I have no idea how to replicate the non-skid pattern on the sole.

At this point it seems like I have two options.

1. When the repair is finished, grind the entire sole smooth and apply completely new non-skid. This is easy enough to do, but the new non-skid certainly won't match the rest of the boat. The question here is: Should I paint the sole or apply new gel coat?

2. When the repair is finished sand the sole smooth then lay a teak deck. This idea attracts me, but I have never laid a teak deck on anything bigger than a 3/4"=1' scale model. Somehow I suspect that the methods might be different for a real boat. I do not want to drill any holes in my newly refinished cabin sole. So the question is: Will epoxying individual teak planks down be anything other than a whole lot of work - will it work?

Thanks

[Ric in Richmond]

Can't help you with the floor...

But FANTASTIC half hulls!!!

Ric

P.S. Maybe you could cast a copy of the old non skid with some plaster of paris or some kind of ureathane and make a mold of the old floor?

Then again teak planks would work too....

[Case]

How about Teak Cockpit Grating? Do your repairs then put a teak grating above the cockpit floor. Gives it a nice finished look! Unless I am wrong, from photographs of the Allied Princess Ketch, it seems that the mizzen mast is set on the cockpit floor just behind the bridgedeck. If that is the case, then you can just do the core repairs and cover it all up by the teak grating. The repairs will not be that visible when you cover it up with the teak gratings. Nobody but you will look thru the tiny open squares to see the repair!

If you dislike teak gratings then the best solution would be to fix the core then try to replicate the non-skid pattern as best you can THEN paint Interlux Nonskid paint over it. Beige or whatever color you like best. That way it looks good and any inevitable imperfections you did in attempting in recreating the nonskid pattern is hidden by the nonskid paint. That is the tough way to go but best overall all around.

I dimly recall West Systems (or maybe System Three) having some brochures on how to replicate your old nonskid by making a mold from your undamaged nonskid. Not sure where to get that information. Read that brochure when in the Hamilition Marine Store in Portland, Maine. Maybe you can find that information in the West System website.

Building a solid teak cockpit sole would be the hardest way to go... and the most costly. I do not think it is worth it maintance-wise and price-wise. That desiscion is ultimately up to you, of course.

Good Luck with your projects!

[CharlieJ]

Hi Todd- welcome to Classic Plastic. Haven't seen you on ANY board in quite some time. We still chat three times a week on TSBB by the way.

You can make a mold of the nonskid with liquid Latex. I asked Laura what she did to make a mold. She tells me couple coats of latex, then a layer of cheese cloth or two, then another layer latex, etc, til you get a thickness you can use. Put a release agent on first- Laura uses spray Pam, but some liquid soap would also work. Then when you have your repair done and the final coat of resin is still wet, lay in the mold you made. Again, use some release agent on the mold. Let the resin cure and peel off the mold. You could use gelcoat OR paint either one. Gel coat can be sprayed, then over coated with PVA to block the air so it will cure . Then you need not add a wax. For small areas you could use a PreVal sprayer to do the job. Of course if you have access to a spray gun that would work also, but it uses more material.


You could also do the teak sole- if the glass sole is flat enough you could adhere the teak strips directly to that using thickened epoxy. The strips can be left a small distance apart, then the gaps filled with an epoxy/graphite mix. I did that on the sole of my trimaran when I built it- worked fine. In that case I glued the strips to a plywood sole, then laid the sole on my floors, but that was a wooden boat.

Yes it will be a lot of work, but not any more than your detail on your half models, which are really looking fantastic by the way. You've come a tremendous long way since that first one.

[Tim]

Hi Todd, and welcome.

Replicating a molded nonskid pattern is possible, but is a lot of work...and doing it well and seamlessly seems (haha) like it would take plenty of practice. To me, a poorly-matched and -replicated molded pattern would look worse than any of your other options, so if it were me, I'd go another way, unless you're dying to try out the matching.

That said, Charlie's latex suggestion would work if you're inclined to try it. In addition, there's a company called Gibco Flex-Mold that manufactures these patterns for exactly this purpose. You can find them advertised in the back of Professional Boatbuilder magazine, among other places, or they pop up on a Google search too; no website that I know of, however.

I found this link that might be instructive also: Repairing Nonskid with Gibco Flex-Mold.

Sanding off all the nonskid on the existing sole and repainting the whole area will look different from other areas, but since the sole is isolated and not directly next to any other areas, the mismatch will not be that noticeable. Personally, I feel that it is better to grind old nonskid away and repaint with appropriate paints than to try and patch in a matching pattern, as most patch jobs I have seen leave much to be desired in terms of quality.

I also believe it looks better, and is more effective, to remove all the molded pattern (by grinding) before repainting a deck area. I just don't think it looks good having paint applied over the pattern; it always looks like someone took the quick way out.

I would not use gelcoat unless you attempt the molded nonskid pattern. For all other approaches, choose a paint that you like. Gelcoat brings with it a series of issues that must be deal with, and is best used in its intended purpose as an original construction coating in an air-inhibited molding situation. I've had very good luck with painted nonskid using either a polyurethane paint mixed with nonskid and flattening agent, or, more recently (and more effectively), Interlux Interdeck paint, which is a pre-mixed nonskid paint that I like very much.

Laying a teak sole would be a very nice option, and not that expensive, given the small amount of teak required. No, not cheap, but for a couple hundred dollars (or even less), plus your own time, you'd have something very nice. You can lay 1/4" strips of teak in a bed of thickened epoxy and come up with a creative way to clamp them (or weight them) in place while the epoxy cures. This eliminates the need for any fasteners. Fill the seams between the planks with black polysulfide for that traditional look.

You can also use temporary screws to install and clamp the planks; when the epoxy cures, remove the screws, inject a little epoxy into the screw hole in the sole beneath the teak, and install teak bungs to cover.

Here's a general description of this technique: Teak Cockpit Hatches

Good luck, whichever way you go!

[JetStream]

Just another clamping method to go along with Tim's advice......
You can use screws with large diameter fender washers, placed between the teak planks. (One screw/washer holds the two adjacent planks.) Then when the epoxy hardens, remove the screws, fill the screw holes with epoxy and then polysulfide the space between the planks.