Painting- Roll and Tip

wstokes · Post by **wstokes** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:22 pm

Last year I prep Secret Arrival to be painted in June, in the great outdoors. A friend of mine who is an expert in spray painting boats using IMRON was doing the painting. Unfortunately the weather did not cooperate at all. I cancelled the painting for the year and put the boat in the water in late June and had a good season of sailing. This year I will try again, however I intend to cover the boat and use the roll and tip method (less set up required, compressor etc. and materials a little cheaper). Has anyone use Interlux 2 part polyurethane paint and what was it like to work with. Secondly, Secret Arrival has a moulded in rub rail just two inches from the toe rail and it contains the rival trim line within it, how do you roll and tip the small space above the rub rail and the rub rail itself?

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:50 pm

I don't have any experience with the Interlux 2-part, but I am a fan of the roll and tip method for the average DIY-er. I'm intimidated by the toxicity of sprayed poly and I'm very pleased with my roll and tip experiments on my Triton. I like some Interlux products, particularly the Interdeck non-skid, but I've heard less than rave reviews of the 2-part poly's, particuarly Perfection. Again, I've no direct experience, but the advice I got when contemplating paint choices for my topsides led me to choose AwlGrip.

For the small section above your rubrail, tape off carefully and "roll" and tip with brushes. It's the tipping out that'll distinguish the job, so apply with a brush and tip as you would paint applied with a roller.

wstokes · Post by **wstokes** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:58 pm

Thanks Jason, I will consider every option and take any advice I can. My funds are limited and I have to be very careful here. Here is a photo of the bow of a Rival 32, which shows the Rival rub rail.

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:28 pm

Good looking boat - I just read the second part of the question about painting the rub rail. If it were me, and others here may correct me, I'd just paint the whole thing white, without consideration for taping off the molded recess. Then, I'd simply paint the recess with a small brush. You can buy many paints in very small quantities for just such purposes.

I didn't find the cost disparity between AwlGrip and Perfection to be all that great (nor between Imron and AwlGrip).

Someone once said on this forum that "what the boat wants, the boat gets." Beware, as that sentiment is contagious!

I fully appreciate maintaining a budget, but some jobs are simply expensive. In those cases, look at the incremental cost vs the incremental rewards. I think you'll find that AwlGrip makes sense in that regard.

No matter what, though, you've got a great looking boat and painting it yourself will make it look that much better - be sure to keep us updated with progress and more photos.

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:33 pm

Another thing, after taking a closer look at the photos - is that primer on your topsides left over from last years paint prep? If so, be careful about what you use to overcoat, as many topcoat products, including AwlGrip and Imron (and probably Interlux) will have specific requirements for primers and will react poorly to the wrong primer.

Post by **Tim** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:32 pm

You can just use a brush in the tight areas. The only point of the roller is to help spread paint evenly in larger areas. Proper brush technique will do just fine elsewhere.

I echo Jason's thoughts on the primer that's already on your boat, if that's the case. If you switch paint products, I'd suggest a compatibility test of the existing primer, using the recommendations of whatever paint you intend to change to using, and then probably apply at least one coat of the compatible primer over what you currently have (assuming it passes the compatibility test).

While Awlgrip, Imron, Alexseal, and other linear polyurethane paints share basic chemistry, there are proprietary formulations to all. Usually, the primers of any of these systems are compatible with topcoats of another, but it's not something you want to find out the hard way!

The key to success with rolling and tipping ANY paint is proper reduction (thinning) and proper thickness of the paint coating. Excellent results are well within reach, but it does take care, patience, meticulous preparation, and a bit of knowledge about the quirks of the particular product that come only from using it. Whatever you choose, think of the first coat as your practice coat, and be prepared to sand it throroughly, just in case!

stone · Post by **stone** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:42 pm

Not sure what kind of paint I am going to use yet either,but was thinking of using the perfection as well. Did not even think of awl-grip because its hard to figure out what you actually need ,with the reducers etc. Can one of you guys put it in simpler terms. Why would you use Interdeck over awl-grip anyways. Isnt Interdeck just a one-part paint. Seems to me the deck gets the most traffic and there you would want the awl-grip as well.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:56 pm

Brush-alone application is totally doable.

A roll-and-tip job is best done with at least two people, ideally three.
The guy with the roller
The guy with the tipping brush
The guy running around mixing paint, cleaning tipping brushes, eyeballing the finish from various angles to spot runs, etc.

If you're only one man (as I was last spring), forget the rolling. You'll drive yourself batty running around trying to wear three hats.
Just brush it on. Your wrist will soon learn the feel for the proper film thickness. Start with a clean tipping brush in each of your back pockets, and a few cups of solvent strategically positioned around the work area to minimze the running-around.

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:08 pm

Why would you use Interdeck over awl-grip anyways. Isnt Interdeck just a one-part paint. Seems to me the deck gets the most traffic and there you would want the awl-grip as well.

I meant that I like Interdeck and consider it a compelling reason to view other Interlux products favorably. That contrasts with what I've heard of Perfection.

Interdeck is a nonskid product that has the aggregate already mixed into the paint. I found it easy to apply, good looking, and just the texture I wanted.

While AwlGrip is certainly more durable than a single-part like, say, Brightsides, I subscribe to the belief that high-traffic areas should be painted with single-part paints, like Interdeck for nonskid or Brightsides for "skid." The complexity of an AwlGrip application does not suit it to easy touch up work.

For the topsides, I think a two-part should be used first for it's unparalled gloss and, more importantly, for its durability. There won't be "traffic" on your topsides, so that consideration is moot.

Did not even think of awl-grip because its hard to figure out what you actually need ,with the reducers etc

I was similarly intimidated. What the heck is a converter? Reducer? What about thinner?!?!?!?!

However, a cold beer later, it dawns that this stuff is PAINT not rocket science. The paint and the converter are mixed in a set ratio 2:1 or 1:1 depending (thus the two part system). The reducer is added to thin the paint and get the proper flow characteristics. How much is determined by the climate on the day you apply - brushstrokes? Add a bit. Runs? You added a bit too much, let some evaporate.

If you put on a coat and you don't like it, sand down the imperfections and put on another one. I'll bet you a bottle of rum that by the third coat it'll look outstanding. Perfect? Maybe not, but no one will notice except you.

Post by **Tim** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:08 am

Figment wrote:Brush-alone application is totally doable.

A roll-and-tip job is best done with at least two people, ideally three.
The guy with the roller
The guy with the tipping brush
The guy running around mixing paint, cleaning tipping brushes, eyeballing the finish from various angles to spot runs, etc.

If you're only one man (as I was last spring), forget the rolling. You'll drive yourself batty running around trying to wear three hats.
Just brush it on. Your wrist will soon learn the feel for the proper film thickness. Start with a clean tipping brush in each of your back pockets, and a few cups of solvent strategically positioned around the work area to minimze the running-around.

I think brushing an entire hull successfully would be extremely difficult alone, and I wouldn't recommend it. You really need the coverage of the roller; the brush works, but is too slow on such a wide area. This will lead to lap marks and other problems as a result. For a complicated surface like a deck, I agree with Mike above about foregoing the roller; you might well have better results with brush alone.

2 people is ideal, but it's certainly possible to roll and tip a hull alone. The key is to determine what the correct size area to cover at once is. Another key, I feel, is to roll and tip the hull in a vertical direction. (Now, some might say this will leave vertical brushmarks...but if you do it right, there aren't going to be any brush marks).

The reason a vertical direction works well is that you limit the length of your wet edge to whatever the height of your topsides is--say, 3 feet or so. This is important, because maintaining the wet edge is the most crucial part of a successful, seamless paint job. Trying to paint a hull horizontally means that your wet edge for each strip of brush or roller marks is ultimately as long as the boat. Plus, not only do you have the longer horizontal edge, but you still have the vertical edge, doubling your concern.

On a boat with typical 2.5-3' topsides, covering an area about 2' in length, and from gunwale to waterline, seems about right when working alone. Roll it quickly, keeping the coating even. Then, with your brush (which should be relatively "dry", not saturated in paint), smooth out the roller stipple. Note that with all paints, there will be a short period where brush marks will show during application. I think this is where people make a mistake: they try too hard to get it smooth during application. It takes 30 seconds or a minute for the brush marks to self-level (if the paint is properly thinned), and overbrushing will never eliminate the brush marks. This is a learned technique.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:18 pm

Tim wrote: I think brushing an entire hull successfully would be extremely difficult alone, and I wouldn't recommend it.

Good point. Acreage.

wstokes · Post by **wstokes** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:58 pm

is that primer on your topsides left over from last years paint prep?

The picture you see is a picture of another Rival 32 located in England. Presently my boat has never been painted before, and the finish is the original gelcoat. I have sanded the entire topsides with 220 grit paper and filled all gouges and scrapes. I will have to go over the hull again this spring. The hull is white and I am going to paint it white this year. However, I love the color black on a boat, but what I have seen thus far, that unless the gelcoat is already black, then stick with the gelcoat color. We have a saying here, that there are only two colors for a boat, "white or black" and only fools paint their boats 'black'. Just to give you an idea of what a freshly painted black Rival 32 looks like, check this out.