Continuing the Cabin Sides Forward of the Mast

[Bluenose]

OK, I am stumped on this one. I keep running into older designed, usually Scandinavian, boats that run the cabin sides forward of the mast. Here are two examples. First the wooden Knarr.



And this is the Turmlaren.



I just picked up "Worthy of the Sea, K. Aage Nielsen and His Legacy of Yacht Design" and he goes a step further. On the Crosby 21 design, which he worked on while at Sparkman & Stephens, the two cabin sides meet similar to the way many of the coamings on open boats do. So what gives? Is this and aesthetic choice or does this design feature serve some purpose.

Anyone?

[Case]

I think its most likely an aesthetic choice.

However, looking at the pictures, I think extending the wooden cabin sides forward serves a way to hide the joints. Some people don't like seeing wood joints or corners, whatever you call it. Also, from some of my readings, it looks like that wood joints can sometimes be a trouble to keep properly sealed. Wood corners or joints can leak from expansion and the sight can be ugly. This usually occurs in old age, quite a few years down the road from the day the boat was built.

There's another reason I can think of hiding the joints... you can build a bit more sloppily and nobody would see it unless they looked really, really closely in that spot. In the meanwhile, if you built sloppily in a conventional way, everybody could see the crappily built wood joint/corner (is there a proper name for this?).

I thought briefly about the extended wood cabin sides being used as brace points... you brace your foot against the wood while raising the halyards or reefing the main sail. I rejected this possiblity after thinking a bit about it because the extended wood cabin sides seem to be too close to the mast to be useful for this purpose.

If anyone else has a more concrete reason(s) than I do, I would love to hear about it. There's usually a non-aesthetic reason for doing things like this.

- Case

[MikeD]

How about stream lining? So the waves wash down the side decks instead of slamming into the cabin full force?

[Peter]

Folkboats also have this feature. I don't think it was ever intended to hide sloppy woodwork. Probably a good foothold and a place to hold something put on the deck when working at the mast while healed over.

And it looks good, too.

Wow, that's a nice Knarr picture !!!

[Bluenose]

Wow, that's a nice Knarr picture !!!

Yep, they tugged at me pretty good for a while. My take was that they want just a bit more air then we usually get in the Northwest. But they must be heaven in San Fransisco bay.

I couldn't find any nordic Folkboats with this feature but this is one of my favorite Folkboat pictures.



I did find some more info on this feature, although no good reason, with a little more reading in the small boat chapter in Nielsen's book.

Characteristic of Nielsen't small boats of this era are the cove stripe, the quickly rising sheer at the bow, the forward-reaching cabin sides that come together on the foredeck, and the curving overhangs at the aft corners of the cabintop.

and talking about Design # 84

Like all the small cabin sailboats that Nielsen designed, he had the cockpit coamings and cabin sides formed from a single piece on each side, coming together to a point forward of the mast.

Case

If anyone else has a more concrete reason(s) than I do, I would love to hear about it. There's usually a non-aesthetic reason for doing things like this.

Maybe this is completely an aesthetic choice but I also just can't help but think that there was a method to this madness. At the time Nielsen drew these designs he was either directly working for Sparkman & Stephens or was consulting with them. Many of these designs were checked and signed by Olin.

Maybe I don't get to know.

[Figment]

The bowman needs a place to set his beer while he performs his duties.

[Bluenose]

See that's my problem. I get looking at something to closely. Take a step back have a beer and the answers just fall into place. Heck, I bet you could wedge a small cooler between those cabin side thingies and the mast.

[Duncan]

The Grampian Classic 31 had this feature. This one was anchored close by me a couple of weekends ago, and I found it very pleasing to the eye.

[Peter]

Oh oh .... don't get me going on Folkboats ;-)
Here are a couple of my favoriytes:

[dasein668]

I bet he's making a bit of leeway, what with his keel coming out of the water! hehe

[Robert The Gray]

In previous times before there were many winches on masts there may have been purchases to hoist the sails. when using mechanical advantage there are long tails of rope that need to go somewhere, a compelling reason? maybe storage for the? anchor and rode. It does seem a bit close to the mast to help one keep their footing when heeling. I like the line though.

r

[Figment]

It does seem a bit close to the mast to help one keep their footing when heeling.

Imagine yourself tucking in a reef by standing on the windward side of the mast, bracing your feet against the leeward member.

[Robert The Gray]

truth said sir fig

[LazyGuy]

It is a design obsolescence feature to trap water so you can rot two sides of the cabin and the deck all at the same time. I have seen one boat where you could reach two fingers from the deck into the cabin leaving enough space to not disturb the mushrooms growing out of the front of the cabin.

[Peter]

I bet he's making a bit of leeway, what with his keel coming out of the water! hehe

He's probably just in a trough. There are 15 strakes on the Folkboat above the ballast keel, and ALL of them are showing in this picture. The guy looks like he's having a good time!