Distribution Panel - meters or not?

preserved_killick · Post by **preserved_killick** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:39 am

I'm shopping for a new Distribution Panel for my rewiring job. My needs are simple as I like to keep the system simple. I'm looking at the Blue-Sea 8 breaker panel.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... aker+Panel

My question is this: will I be sorry I didn't get a panel with an amp & volt meter? My current boat does not have a meter. Is the information provided indispensable? Better to get a separate unit for the meters? Opinions?

Post by **Tim** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:44 am

Get a basic panel without meters. There's no harm in doing without the meters if you want a nice, simple system.

If you really want good information about your batteries, then install a dedicated battery monitor, such as those by Xantrex or other manufacturers. They provide more useful information, and more of it, than those basic meters, and are worth the upgrade. I don't think the basic meters are of that much use, but a good battery monitor is very helpful.

preserved_killick · Post by **preserved_killick** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:46 pm

Thanks Tim.

I just ordered the Blue-Sea panel.

-jeff

triton318 · Post by **triton318** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:38 pm

Just out of curiosity--what's the main difference between a panel like the one linked to here with breakers and a panel with fuses? Other than being able to reset the breaker, whereas with the other one, you have to replace the fuse. Is there anything else? Just curious.

Thanks!

LazyGuy · Post by **LazyGuy** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:54 pm

Jay,

There are differences that are huge to a electrical engineering weenie that deals with large voltages and HUGE amounts of current but they are nothing to a regular boat owner. Also, for a 15 amp breaker, the trip value is 15 amp over a reasonable amount of time (minutes) then 10 amps for a second, 200 amps for 1/2 second etc....whereas with fuses you can get a 15 amp fuse or a 15A slow blow. The fuses also have the higher amperage for a shorter time feature but it is not as predictable. As you surmised, it is largely that the breakers can be reset while the fuses must be replaced. Breakers are easier and you do not have to worry about how many you have on hand.

If you do get the fuse panel, mark the panel with what size fuse is in each holder. It could save you a lot of frustration later.

David · Post by **David** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:42 pm

Keep in mind that circuit breakers are not intended to be used as on/off switches for circuits.

preserved_killick · Post by **preserved_killick** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:16 pm

David,

I'll preface what I say here by admitting that I have limited practical experience with electrical systems in general.

That said, I just called Blue Sea Systems, the manufacturer of the panel I just ordered, and spoke with their tech support. They said that using a breaker switch as an on/off switch is perfectly fine. The actual breaker switches themselves are rated at 10,000 cycles under normal operating conditions. He further explained that often times a circuit will have greater complexity that just turning on the running lights, in which case a switching device would be needed in addition to the breaker.

-jeff

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:57 pm

I have a total re-wire planned for the near future, to replace the original two VW-style fuse blocks. I was thinking of using this fuse panel, as my electrical system has very basic needs, no anchor windlass, radar, or toaster oven.
It would provide me with everything I need right now, plus about three spares. If I increase demands in the future I could connect it to a small breaker panel.

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:36 am

I've found something like this more useful than gauges on a panel. I have the gauges, just haven't gotten around to hooking them up since I installed this:

http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/274/p/1/pt/7/product.asp

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:55 pm

Peter:

I've worked on a boat that has that fuse block. Pretty nice to work with, though the clear plastic cover is a little cheesy. I like it. If I didn't already have a few panels with glass fuses thats what I would go with.

Nevertheless, I am tempted to grab a graingers catalog and build a stainless panel with circuit breakers and water proof rocker switches, with little LED's along each one. But alas... not enough time in the day. (Race car dash in a racing sailboat? Why not... grin)

Though if you still have the ceramic fuses and need to limp it along... Cheapest place I've found to get them is through autohausaz.com

Couple bucks gets you a blister pack of them! (Rewired my VW last fall... Glad boats don't have as many sharp and pointy sheet metal protrusions!)

Edited for clarity: I like the blue sea fuse box... the ceramic fuse blocks are crappy!

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:24 am

I suggest not using those lousy Bosch, VW, Volvo, etc fuse holders and the ceramic fuses. I had endless trouble with them in the several Volvos I had. Sharp edges galore, unplated contacts. The worse one was the fuse for the fuel pump which apparently was just barely adequate for the load; it would run hot and then oxidize the contacts. In a hurry one time, I tried cleaning the fuse holder with steel wool and without disconnecting the battery; steel wool burns very enthusiastically! (Ordinarily, I could get another month w/o serious cleaning by simply rolling the fuse within the holder and not even get out of my seat. Very unnerving for the unsuspecting passenger!)

Buy marine quality; boats are damp. And the Bass breakers are fine; so are the cheepie aircraft style breakers used in our old Morgan 27.

The bit I can't get my bone-head around is that a 15 amp breaker is a 15 amp breaker, whether it's wired into a 12v circuit or a 120v. My electrical engineer friend on his Chris Craft Apache says that the breaker won't know.

I want one of those dandy battery monitors, too.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:45 pm

Quetzalsailor wrote:The bit I can't get my bone-head around is that a 15 amp breaker is a 15 amp breaker, whether it's wired into a 12v circuit or a 120v. My electrical engineer friend on his Chris Craft Apache says that the breaker won't know.

Circuit breakers like the Blue Sea System units are tripped by an electromagnet that responds to the current that flows through it. The magnet's power gets stronger as the current increases, and when the current reaches the set level, the magnet is strong enough to pull the breaker open. The amount of current controls the magnet's power, regardless of the voltage.

That being said, the breaker has to be rated for the voltage it is used with, but that has to do with material composition and internal spacings, not the magnetics.

forrest · Post by **forrest** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:06 pm

I put that blade fuse panel in my boat to cut out a bunch of little fuses. My only problem is that they don't make the bladed fuses in all the various sizes that some of my electrical stuff wants... like 1.5 amp or 7 amp.
I would have gone with the glass fuse version instead.