Distribution Panel - meters or not?
- preserved_killick
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Distribution Panel - meters or not?
I'm shopping for a new Distribution Panel for my rewiring job. My needs are simple as I like to keep the system simple. I'm looking at the Blue-Sea 8 breaker panel.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... aker+Panel
My question is this: will I be sorry I didn't get a panel with an amp & volt meter? My current boat does not have a meter. Is the information provided indispensable? Better to get a separate unit for the meters? Opinions?
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... aker+Panel
My question is this: will I be sorry I didn't get a panel with an amp & volt meter? My current boat does not have a meter. Is the information provided indispensable? Better to get a separate unit for the meters? Opinions?
- Tim
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Get a basic panel without meters. There's no harm in doing without the meters if you want a nice, simple system.
If you really want good information about your batteries, then install a dedicated battery monitor, such as those by Xantrex or other manufacturers. They provide more useful information, and more of it, than those basic meters, and are worth the upgrade. I don't think the basic meters are of that much use, but a good battery monitor is very helpful.
If you really want good information about your batteries, then install a dedicated battery monitor, such as those by Xantrex or other manufacturers. They provide more useful information, and more of it, than those basic meters, and are worth the upgrade. I don't think the basic meters are of that much use, but a good battery monitor is very helpful.
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- preserved_killick
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- Master Varnisher
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Just out of curiosity--what's the main difference between a panel like the one linked to here with breakers and a panel with fuses? Other than being able to reset the breaker, whereas with the other one, you have to replace the fuse. Is there anything else? Just curious.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Jay
Dove, Pearson Triton #318
Hayes, VA
Dove, Pearson Triton #318
Hayes, VA
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Jay,
There are differences that are huge to a electrical engineering weenie that deals with large voltages and HUGE amounts of current but they are nothing to a regular boat owner. Also, for a 15 amp breaker, the trip value is 15 amp over a reasonable amount of time (minutes) then 10 amps for a second, 200 amps for 1/2 second etc....whereas with fuses you can get a 15 amp fuse or a 15A slow blow. The fuses also have the higher amperage for a shorter time feature but it is not as predictable. As you surmised, it is largely that the breakers can be reset while the fuses must be replaced. Breakers are easier and you do not have to worry about how many you have on hand.
If you do get the fuse panel, mark the panel with what size fuse is in each holder. It could save you a lot of frustration later.
There are differences that are huge to a electrical engineering weenie that deals with large voltages and HUGE amounts of current but they are nothing to a regular boat owner. Also, for a 15 amp breaker, the trip value is 15 amp over a reasonable amount of time (minutes) then 10 amps for a second, 200 amps for 1/2 second etc....whereas with fuses you can get a 15 amp fuse or a 15A slow blow. The fuses also have the higher amperage for a shorter time feature but it is not as predictable. As you surmised, it is largely that the breakers can be reset while the fuses must be replaced. Breakers are easier and you do not have to worry about how many you have on hand.
If you do get the fuse panel, mark the panel with what size fuse is in each holder. It could save you a lot of frustration later.
Cheers
Dennis
Luders 33 "Paper Moon" Hull No 16
Life is too short to own an ugly boat.
Dennis
Luders 33 "Paper Moon" Hull No 16
Life is too short to own an ugly boat.
- preserved_killick
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David,
I'll preface what I say here by admitting that I have limited practical experience with electrical systems in general.
That said, I just called Blue Sea Systems, the manufacturer of the panel I just ordered, and spoke with their tech support. They said that using a breaker switch as an on/off switch is perfectly fine. The actual breaker switches themselves are rated at 10,000 cycles under normal operating conditions. He further explained that often times a circuit will have greater complexity that just turning on the running lights, in which case a switching device would be needed in addition to the breaker.
-jeff
I'll preface what I say here by admitting that I have limited practical experience with electrical systems in general.
That said, I just called Blue Sea Systems, the manufacturer of the panel I just ordered, and spoke with their tech support. They said that using a breaker switch as an on/off switch is perfectly fine. The actual breaker switches themselves are rated at 10,000 cycles under normal operating conditions. He further explained that often times a circuit will have greater complexity that just turning on the running lights, in which case a switching device would be needed in addition to the breaker.
-jeff
- Peter
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I have a total re-wire planned for the near future, to replace the original two VW-style fuse blocks. I was thinking of using this fuse panel, as my electrical system has very basic needs, no anchor windlass, radar, or toaster oven.
It would provide me with everything I need right now, plus about three spares. If I increase demands in the future I could connect it to a small breaker panel.
It would provide me with everything I need right now, plus about three spares. If I increase demands in the future I could connect it to a small breaker panel.
- Ceasar Choppy
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I've found something like this more useful than gauges on a panel. I have the gauges, just haven't gotten around to hooking them up since I installed this:
http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/274/p/1/pt/7/product.asp
http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/274/p/1/pt/7/product.asp

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Peter:
I've worked on a boat that has that fuse block. Pretty nice to work with, though the clear plastic cover is a little cheesy. I like it. If I didn't already have a few panels with glass fuses thats what I would go with.
Nevertheless, I am tempted to grab a graingers catalog and build a stainless panel with circuit breakers and water proof rocker switches, with little LED's along each one. But alas... not enough time in the day. (Race car dash in a racing sailboat? Why not... grin)
Though if you still have the ceramic fuses and need to limp it along... Cheapest place I've found to get them is through autohausaz.com
Couple bucks gets you a blister pack of them! (Rewired my VW last fall... Glad boats don't have as many sharp and pointy sheet metal protrusions!)
Edited for clarity: I like the blue sea fuse box... the ceramic fuse blocks are crappy!
I've worked on a boat that has that fuse block. Pretty nice to work with, though the clear plastic cover is a little cheesy. I like it. If I didn't already have a few panels with glass fuses thats what I would go with.
Nevertheless, I am tempted to grab a graingers catalog and build a stainless panel with circuit breakers and water proof rocker switches, with little LED's along each one. But alas... not enough time in the day. (Race car dash in a racing sailboat? Why not... grin)
Though if you still have the ceramic fuses and need to limp it along... Cheapest place I've found to get them is through autohausaz.com
Couple bucks gets you a blister pack of them! (Rewired my VW last fall... Glad boats don't have as many sharp and pointy sheet metal protrusions!)
Edited for clarity: I like the blue sea fuse box... the ceramic fuse blocks are crappy!
Last edited by Zach on Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Master of the Arcane
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I suggest not using those lousy Bosch, VW, Volvo, etc fuse holders and the ceramic fuses. I had endless trouble with them in the several Volvos I had. Sharp edges galore, unplated contacts. The worse one was the fuse for the fuel pump which apparently was just barely adequate for the load; it would run hot and then oxidize the contacts. In a hurry one time, I tried cleaning the fuse holder with steel wool and without disconnecting the battery; steel wool burns very enthusiastically! (Ordinarily, I could get another month w/o serious cleaning by simply rolling the fuse within the holder and not even get out of my seat. Very unnerving for the unsuspecting passenger!)
Buy marine quality; boats are damp. And the Bass breakers are fine; so are the cheepie aircraft style breakers used in our old Morgan 27.
The bit I can't get my bone-head around is that a 15 amp breaker is a 15 amp breaker, whether it's wired into a 12v circuit or a 120v. My electrical engineer friend on his Chris Craft Apache says that the breaker won't know.
I want one of those dandy battery monitors, too.
Buy marine quality; boats are damp. And the Bass breakers are fine; so are the cheepie aircraft style breakers used in our old Morgan 27.
The bit I can't get my bone-head around is that a 15 amp breaker is a 15 amp breaker, whether it's wired into a 12v circuit or a 120v. My electrical engineer friend on his Chris Craft Apache says that the breaker won't know.
I want one of those dandy battery monitors, too.
Circuit breakers like the Blue Sea System units are tripped by an electromagnet that responds to the current that flows through it. The magnet's power gets stronger as the current increases, and when the current reaches the set level, the magnet is strong enough to pull the breaker open. The amount of current controls the magnet's power, regardless of the voltage.Quetzalsailor wrote:The bit I can't get my bone-head around is that a 15 amp breaker is a 15 amp breaker, whether it's wired into a 12v circuit or a 120v. My electrical engineer friend on his Chris Craft Apache says that the breaker won't know.
That being said, the breaker has to be rated for the voltage it is used with, but that has to do with material composition and internal spacings, not the magnetics.