Would someone nplease take a stand? Heh heh

[penthink]

Well, as you know, I foisted my old Cheoy Lee off on another user on this board, and I purchased the 323 which is to be delivered next week sometime. Here is my question: With the Cheoy Lee (Displacement=14000lbs or so, 30 ft in length), I used two stands per side, and one bow stand. The transporter has recommended with the new boat (12000 lbs displacement, 32 feet in length) that I use three stands per side plus my bow stand. Not to be too cynical, but the transporter sells stands.

Do I need these extra two stands? Why do I seem to walk through the storage lot in the winter and see tons of 32' boats with five stands holding them up? Is it because they assume no one will be boarding them during the winter? Am I screwing myself if I don't buy those extra two stands? I should also point out that the previous owner of the boat has never used more than five, and laughed uproariously at the prospect of seven stands for the boat. But then again, this is my baby, and I would rather blow $280 on a couple new stands than come out and see her on her side some morning.

[dasein668]

I'm no expert, but seven stands seems like overkill for the boat... Its not like you need extra stands to handle the weight, as the keel is doing that part of the job.

On the other hand, Hamilton Marine recommends one pair per 8 feet of boat length, which, if I read correctly means we should be using 7 stands with a Triton, and 9(!) with a 32 footer...

[Tim]

Go with 5.

Of course, the smaller and narrower the keel, the more stands might be needed to help the boat stay upright. But the 323's keel is pretty long and shallow, relatively speaking.

[Figment]

Purely by chance, I own seven stands. I tried using them all to shore up Figment last winter, and I gotta say it just felt ridiculous. The stands were practically on top of each other. When I realized that the two under the quarters were doing next-to-nothing to contribute to lateral stability, I pulled them and left it with five. On launch day this spring the brownell driver took one look at my boat and said "ah, good, I was hoping you weren't going to leave it with all seven stands"

Those Brownell guys know their stuff when it comes to blocking up a boat. The advice I recieved (on LAUNCH day, not HAULOUT day, of course) was that seven stands MIGHT have been a good idea if I'd left the mast up over the winter and if I was unsure of the stability of the yard's soil. With no mast up, though, there sometimes isn't enough pressure to really keep the stands in place when distributed among seven... They see a lot of "drifting" boatstands when people use too many. Or, people get pressure on the stands by taking too much weight off the keel, distorting the hull.

I hadn't heard of Hamilton's 8' rule of thumb. Perhaps it is best applied to waterline length? What does this compute to with regard to the 323??

[Tim]

Personally, I choose to read the "one pair per eight feet" more to mean that there should be about eight feet (give or take) between each pair of stands, and about another eight feet or so (usually less) of unsupported boat at the ends (waterline area, not including the bow stand).

This may not be at all what the "rule" is meant to convey, but when taken in this context I think it makes the most sense. Using this understanding of the rule, it's easy to figure why two pair of stands evenly distributed along the bottom length of a 30-footer, plus the bow centerline stand, is adequate. The first set of stands is typically placed about 6-8' aft of the cutwater, and a further 8 or so feet aft from there leads to the logical placement of the second set. On a 28-or 32-footer, typically this second set then ends up about 5 or 8 feet from the aft end of the waterline.

I agree that additional stands may be useful if stowing with the mast up, which creates a large moment arm. And certain designs require more support at the aft end than others, simply based on the way the boat is design and the weight distributed therein. The 323 is not one of these designs, though.

(Un)common sense is the key here. Use whatever looks right, not what some arbitrary rule or person says. If you feel you need more, put them in; if you feel you need fewer, don't buy the extras. Whatever you do, put the stand legs on small plywood pads to prevent sinking, or use large plywood squares of the ground is really suspect. And then check the stands to make sure they're hand tight all winter. You could probably hold the boat successfully all winter with only three stands (one per side and the center stand) if it were maintained correctly, though obviously this would be ridiculous.

Boats on stands only tip because they were blocked and supported wrongly in the first place (main cause), or because of long-term storage with a total disregard for inspections and maintenance, or because of extraordinary natural forces (like Hurricanes). Boats don't tip because the stands were placed 9' instead of 8' apart.

I can get new stands wholesale and will sell for cost to anyone interested, BTW. It's good for my account volume.

[penthinkfromhome]

heh heh. My own sense of pun(iness) never fails to entertain me.

Ahem.

Yes, after hearing horrible tales of woe about not using enough stands, what I came to understand was that the crux of most of the sob stories was that folks were referring to boats on which the mast was left up. I am storing my boat with the mast down, so when that detail is added, it typically changes the outlook of the storyteller.

Tim, I would be most interested to hear more about your stand offer. If you would prefer to e-mail me rather than advertise prices, I'm pretty certain you have my e-mail. I need two stands immediately, so how would that work?

I can't stand to wait for your reply! (chuckle chuckle)

Thanks,
Mike

[Tim]

Mike,

I sent you an email. If you didn't get it, email me direct with the proper email address.

[robbh]

Tim,

I am currently trying to find stands for sale,but they seem to be really expensive out here. any idea about how much they should cost?

Robb

[dasein668]

Retail price through Hamilton Marine is 93 to 107 depending on size (new). If that gives you any sort of ball park. I believe we paid 300 for 4 pad stands plus a bow stand (5 total stands), used. Don't quote me on what we paid... it was wrapped up in the delivery bill which seems to be eluding me now.

[Tim]

Wholesale cost is about $65-75, depending on size. The SB4s needed for an Ensign are at the low end. Retail costs are, of course, much higher.

A decent retail price would be similar to the Hamilton prices that Nathan quoted. Stands really need to be bought locally because of the problem in shipping them.

[JetStream]

Brownell sells direct if you go there to pick them up. For anyone near Mattapoisett, MA it makes sense. This is their price list:
http://www.boatstands.com/stands.htm

[Tim]

Since this thread is already deep, it should be noted, for those following along, that the price of boat stands has apparently changed recently--and significantely. I discovered this this morning when trying to order some.

Hamilton's online catalog now lists SB2s at $127.99, and I discovered that Kellogg has also gone up by $20+ each, to around $95. Apparently the price of steel has increased dramatically. Even the prices listed FOB at Brownell's Mattapoisett location reflect this.

Up all the prices noted earlier in this thread by $20-$30 and you'll know what the prices are like now, today.

[Figment]

Yes, steel prices have skyrocketed over the last year or so. Based on what I've seen in the building trades, that 20% increase is completely reasonable. Prices are escalating so quickly that quotes on steel these days usually are only good for about two weeks.

[Tim]

I need to amend this. It turns out that the SB2 stands are the ones I have been using, and that work well for boats of about 4-5' draft. For some reason, I was confusing things. Apologies.

The SB2 would definitely be the right choice for the Bristol, or a Triton, or even the P-323.