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As promised, here are some pictures of my deck - a 1974 San Juan 24 "Summer's Dawn".
Picture showing the original molded in "stipple"
Fairly typical of the majority of the deck. Not too bad, gelcoat worn through on the tops of some of the stipples.
More of the same.
Some of the larger cracks on my deck. These ones are radiating out from the corner of the forward hatch. Is grinding these out and filling them going to be adequate? Do I need to use some cloth? The cracks appear to be only gelcoat deep.
I have patches of these little curved cracks. These account for the majority of the grinding/filling.
More of the same. On the non-skid areas, if I give these a good sand, a couple of coats of primer, and 2 coats of Interdeck, will there be much print through? If not, what should be done? What I am looking for is a deck that looks good while standing up. I figure if you have to get on your hands and knees to see the imperfections, the finish is good enough for me.
Cockpit locker lid. The biggest area of worn through gel.
After grinding, filling and hitting it with 120 grit. Close to passing the "by touch" test. A few places will need a skim more filler. What would be best to use for tiny imperfections left after sanding? I am looking for the marine equivalent of glazing putty I guess. Epoxy thickened with microballoons?
The majority of the work is in the high wear areas - ie cockpit and side decks. The cockpit has been ground, filled and half of the filled spots are sanded.
Summersdawn wrote:Some of the larger cracks on my deck. These ones are radiating out from the corner of the forward hatch. Is grinding these out and filling them going to be adequate? Do I need to use some cloth? The cracks appear to be only gelcoat deep.
Cracks like that will tend to reappear almost no matter what you do. If you grind and fill them, however, when they do reappear they will be nowhere near as noticeable as now--more like a fine line printing through the new paint, unless the stresses are still adequate enough to open them completely again.
Unless you're going for absolute perfection and want to take no shortcuts (however small), I wouldn't bother with any more than grinding the cracks as much as practicable and filling. The amount of effort required to eliminate these sorts of cracks is excessive; even then, it's not always a guarantee, either.
Summersdawn wrote:On the non-skid areas, if I give these a good sand, a couple of coats of primer, and 2 coats of Interdeck, will there be much print through? If not, what should be done? What I am looking for is a deck that looks good while standing up. I figure if you have to get on your hands and knees to see the imperfections, the finish is good enough for me.
I wouldn't go to any great lengths in the nonskid area at all. Nonskid is great at hiding this stuff, and even if the cracks come back they'll hardly be noticeable.
Summersdawn wrote:What would be best to use for tiny imperfections left after sanding? I am looking for the marine equivalent of glazing putty I guess.
Epoxy and microballons has large enough pores (the phenolic sphere that is a microballon) that it is not usually fine enough to fill tiny imperfections and pinholes. For this, you need something like a surfacing putty. Interlux makes a product like this (2-part), though I don't love it. There are others, too. You could use anything epoxy or vinylester based. System Three Quik-Fair is quite fine and works OK for this too, or for the premium product get some Awlgrip Awl-Fair or Alexseal surfacing putty.
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Thanks Tim. I won't be too fussy with the cracks/non-skid.
How long does it take for brightsides / interdeck to dry? The reason I ask is there have unfortunately been alot of boat break-ins lately. I am wondering if I paint in the morning, will the paint be dry enough in the evening to temporarily put the hatches etc. back on? Or is that just going to ruin a new paint job.
I think that might be pushing it a little, but you might be able to sneak around on deck in your stocking feet. It depends so much on so many things. The paint will be tack-free in only a couple hours, but that's a long way from being ready for foot traffic.
I've never tried to walk on decks until the next day. In general, this is safer, but you may be able to do what you need to do--carefully. Unfortunately, you'll just have to wait and see for yourself whether it's possible.
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Ok. Maybe I'll see if there is another way of securing the cabin before I start painting - ie plywood coverings on the inside, screwed on from the outside using the existig boltholes. This may work, and be the easiest way. I'll take a look at this after I have removed the gear. If anyone has other ideas, please feel free to share them.
I'm done the first round of filling and sanding, and into the second (filling pinholes and the occasional dimple). It is starting to look pretty good. I was hoping to have the second coat of surfacing putty on yesterday, but not only was it hot (100 degrees), but windy with winds of 25 knots, and gusts even higher. The board I had my putty on, and one of my putty knifes was picked up by the wind and hurled into the sea. That's when I decided to call it quits! Will try to remeber to bring the camera down and snap some more pictures.
I was hoping to be able to add some more pictures to this, however, I'm not able to FTP from my computer. I'll get it figured out, but not sure when. I am a system administrator, so when my home computer breaks, it usually takes me a while to get it fixed, as by the end of the day, I've usually just had enough.
I finished grinding, filling and fairing all the cracks in the deck. Then I stripped all the gear off of the deck - little more grinding, filling and sanding (washing down with 202 at each step of course), and on to the next stage.
My non skid has a molded in random stipple pattern to it. I opted not to sand this all off, as interdeck looks good on top of this type of molded in pattern.
I finished overdrilling the remainder of the holes in my deck and filling with thickened epoxy. Then more solvent, some sanding, tacking and more solvent.
I primed the deck with Interlux Epoxy Prime-Kote. I primed the whole deck, including non-skid areas, as it seemed easier than masking off the non-skid areas. They were calling for rain for the next afternoon. 24 hrs seemed like plenty of time for the primer to dry before it got wet.
Of course, it rained much harder than they were predicting, and also much sooner - about 4 hours after I finished priming. AARRGHH!
The majority of the primer seemed good, however, a couple of horizontal spots that I did last started to peel up. I found these areas didn't extend too far, so I sanded those areas off, and wiped again with solvent.
Then I put on the second coat of primer. As this was going to be my last coat, I rolled and tipped it. Epoxy Prime-kote is white, and it seemed to flow well. I tipped this in a horizontal direction.
I sanded this out. It looked good, and felt smooth, so I tacked and solvent wiped. Time to apply the first coat of paint. I tipped this vertically. When it dried, I saw faint horizontal brush marks. AARRGGH. I should have thinned the primer more. I guess I didn't sand the primer enough, all though it sure looked and felt smooth. I guess it was hard to see the brush marks because it was all a dull white. It actually looked just like chalky white gelcoat at this stage - it almost looked like I hadn't touched it. Color was different though, as my gelcoat was ivory, not white. Not sure why my fingers didn't pick up the difference though. Maybe it was because by this time, they were getting a pretty heavy callous layer on them.
So, I ended up sanding most of the first coat off, being very careful to make sure that it was actually smooth this time (hey - its all a big learning experience and I was really learning). I sanded through the primer in a couple of spots, but decided that the paint would cover this.
The second coat of paint went on perfectly. No runs, sags, brush marks etc, however, the paint is so thin, that it really shows the difference between ivory gelcoat and white primer.
Third coat went on good, with a tiny sag in the cockpit, and another one under the forward window. The ivory color was slowly starting to fade to white.
Fourth coat went on well, although I had one or two small sags as well. Wet sanding took care of these. I had found some 320 grit wet/dry sponges at We$t Marine that worked really well for me for sanding between coats. I also found cheap polarized sunglasses really help you see what has been sanded, and what hasn't, and also what has been painted and what hasn't. Cheap is the operative word, as by the time I was done, they had paint on them. Why is it that whenever my hands get dirty, I need to scratch my face, or adjust my sunglasses?
The ivory gelcoat had virtually disappeared, so I figured on more coat should be good. All my painting had been in temperatures in the mid 80's with 10-15 knots of wind (you know- perfect sailing weather). The day of the fifth coat was very humid with almost no wind. Of course the paint acted quite different. I got several sags, all in locations that were visible. AARRGHH!!!!
After wet sanding I put the sixth coat on. When I bought my new roller cover, I thought I bought the same as what I had been using, unfortunately, it was thicker. It held a lot more paint than what I was used to. So, after cutting the corners in on the cockpit, I started rolling and tipping. After the whole area sagged due to having more paint than I was used to, I had a quick debate with myself - experiment and then keep going after I figured out what will work with the new roller, or wipe off what I had done, and look for the other rollers I had been using. I kept going. I found having the paint not reduced so much, and tipping it a little more worked well. I probably should have stopped, but it ended up working out well. I ended up with one nearly invisible sag, although I felt like I was twisting the dragon's tail the whole time I was painting. Probably sweated off 15 pounds worrying about sags.
Next day, I masked of the smooth areas and solvent wiped. I started putting on the Interdeck. It went on good, and looked good, and was sooo much easier than rolling and tipping (not that rolling and tipping was that hard - other than the mistakes I outlined previously). I ended up using more paint on the first coat than I thought.
I let it dry for 24hrs, then put my second coat of paint on. After that dried I peeled up my masking tape. AARRGHH! The tape peeled up some of the smooth parts I had painted previously. I really should learn to be more patient. I'm sure leaving the smooth paint longer to cure better would have prevented this. Also, I left a few marks in the paint from my shoes. If anyone is going to put interdeck on top of molded in random stipple, be warned - the paint sags into the indents, and takes forever to harden. Use 2 light coats, not to medium coats, because with the texture already on the deck, your 2 light coats are probably closer to 2 medium coats than you realize.
I refinished my brightwork, made some more robust backing plates for my stanchions, etc, and started to put things back together. Tim's advise on drilling your new holes through your epoxy "pots" undersize, and then tapping them out works great. Thank you Tim.
A week ago, most of my gear was back on the boat. One big exception was the windows.
(Pause for dramatic effect)
A condo being built about 1 block north of the Yacht Club caught on fire last week. There were 3 different four story wood framed buildings. The north wind blew all the soot and ash from the fire south. My boat was covered stem to stern in ash and fallout. The biggest pieces were chunks of shingles about 10" long ,and 3 or 4" wide. A couple of chunks of wood, 1" square also landed on my deck. There are 2 scorch marks, about as big as a quarter as well. The interior of my boat had some ash in it as well. I'm lucky none of those were hot ashes, like some that landed on my deck, or I wouldn't have a boat.
Luckily, my sails and mainsail cover were at home. The hot ashes did a lot of damage to the canvass and sails on other boats, with numerous other decks having scorch marks as well. All things considered, I am pretty lucky.
The soot and ash cleaned off of my freshly painted decks very easily. Some people with gelcoat had a heck of a time trying to scrub the greasy soot out of the gelcoat, and the scorch marks on the interdeck are going to be much easier to touch up than scorch marks on gelcoat. I had some touch ups to do anyways, so really it ticked me off more than being a major inconvenience.
So, the deck took much longer than I thought to paint, and at times I got frustrated, but over all I am happy with the results. When I get my computer fixed, I will upload some pictures of my progress, plus some pictures of the soot, ashes and scorches.
To end on a lighter note (although this isn't the right forum), I crewed on a J-105 on the weekend. Start in Ladysmith harbour, go around Thetis, Kuper and Tent Islands, and finish back in Ladysmith harbour. This is usually a light air race (usually not even enough wind to break the gloss on the surface of the water), plus currents to deal with. The race started out this way, however, once we got to the outside of the islands, the wind picked up to 15 knots. Nothing like beating into 15 knots with SOG of 8 knots! What a rush. The wind eased a bit for the broad reach home, but we still managed to hit 9 knots SOG. They give you 36 hours to complete the course (because of the usually light conditions), but we had it in 7! I really needed that sail!
Primer. I don't remeber if this is the first coat or the second coat.
Another shot of the primer. I think these might be of the first coat of primer (before the rain).
Soot and ashes in my cockpit from the condo blaze. These were taken in the evening so lighting is poor.
More soot and ashes.
Small chunk of wood and some remnants of roofing material. The penny is for perspective.
Another chunk of wood. Sorry about the picture quality.
Medium sized chunk of roofing material. It is thinner than tissue, and crumbles if you touch it.
Smaller scorch mark. The lighting is poor, and I'm not a photographer. The dark parts extend out further than the picture shows (although they are faint). I'm not sure waht happened to the pictures of the larger scorch mark. It is much more distinct than this.
The cabin sides faired pretty well with only minor fallout.
More soot and ash in the rear of the cockpit.
More soot and ash.
All things considered, I faired pretty well. It is hard to see how discolored the decks really are because of the poor light, but they are much dirtier than the photos show. Fortunately they washed off easily. The burn marks will be easy to touch up. I'm not sure exactly how I am going to go about it, but I am thinking solvent wipe, sand majority of the burn off, another solvent wipe, and paint. I probably won't paint to much, and try to blend it in as much as possible.
Summersdawn wrote:The tape peeled up some of the smooth parts I had painted previously. I really should learn to be more patient. I'm sure leaving the smooth paint longer to cure better would have prevented this.
Normally, 24 hours is sufficient to allow for taping over new paint, but as with everything, it depends. It's always a little nerve wracking to put masking tape on a newly painted surface!
Peeling paint is often the result of a poor bond with the substrate, rather than timing. Maybe there was some contamination in that area that prevented the paint from bonding well.
In any event, nice job, and thanks for the detailed writeup and photos! Hope that your cleanup and burn repair goes well.
You guys who prep and paint your boats in the water at the dock amaze me. I don't think I'd want to even try painting and prepping on a bobbing boat with no staging!
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I did all the work on my triton at the dock, and with the long walk back to the car if I forgot something, the pile of small hand tools that line the bottom around the boat, and having to put all the tools back on the boat at the end of each day so the marina guys would not get upset, I really envied those of you with big back yards. Then again I get to go sailing in oct, nov, dec, jan, feb, mar, et.al.
I've wondered if maybe when I was solvent wiping it some acetone soaked into the tape and curdled the fresh paint. The spots that peeled were quite random, not near any fittings or anywhere that would have silicone or anything. They were also quite small. I was also very careful about my initial 202 wipes, and used a spray bottle of water to check for water beading. The deck was very well sanded as well.
Maybe it was the rain on the fresh primer. I know I experienced a few spots were I had adhesion prolems with that.
I'm sure the touchups will adhere better, and hopefully I can blend them in acceptably.
It was very awkward and fatiguing painting the deck without staging. Because of the fine entry and exit on the San Juan, I could only work on about 6' of the starboard side from the dock. The rest was done while on the deck.
In any event, nice job, and thanks for the detailed writeup and photos! Hope that your cleanup and burn repair goes well.
Thanks Tim. And your welcome. It amazes me how you guys can work on your boats all day, and still find time at night to write up what was accomplished.
It has all been a big learning experience, and if/when I ever do another paint job, I know I can do a better job.
I did all the work on my triton at the dock, and with the long walk back to the car if I forgot something, the pile of small hand tools that line the bottom around the boat, and having to put all the tools back on the boat at the end of each day so the marina guys would not get upset, I really envied those of you with big back yards. Then again I get to go sailing in oct, nov, dec, jan, feb, mar, et.al.
I couldn't have said it better myself. :) The walks back and forth to the car are definitely the worst.
Rick, great job on the paint! Thanks for the photos too.
