Dinghy for a C&C 40

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi All,


One piece of equipment we have never owned is a dinghy -- It's very easy to cruise the Chesapeake without one and I've never got around to buying one. However, Denise and I are going to be expanding our cruising range outside the Chesapeake in the upcoming year. We are looking at a cruise up to Block Island and beyond in early summer 2007 and a few month cruise down to the Abaco's and Exuma's in the spring of 2008.

After looking at a bunch of dinghy models online I was thinking about something in the 8.5 to 9.5 foot range with a high pressure air floor and a carrying capacity in the 750 to 950 pound range. Most manufacturers seem to offer their best deals about this time of year so I thought that now would be the time to buy one.

I'm also trying to decide between a smaller 5 hp outboard and a more powerful 9.9 hp outboard for the dinghy.

I'm also unsure about the best way to store a dinghy onboard the boat. The C&C 40 has a somewhat narrow stern and I'm not sure if davits are the way to go or not ( I also have to find room on deck for a 6 - 8 person liferaft )

Any help or advice would be great!


George Jones

[bcooke]

There seems to be two lines of preference concerning dinghies. One is the rigid boat with oars and the second is the inflatable with motor. It appears I tend toward the former while you lean towards the latter which are both okay but since I am in the opposite camp I can't offer too much specific info but here goes.

I think with inflatables too much power is better than too little. I would go with the larger motor. One thing an inflatable can't do well is row so make sure the motor is strong enough to maneuver effectively in all weather and current conditions.

I think most life rafts store pretty neatly and can be placed most anywhere on deck. Just keep it accessible is the only advice I can think of. Davits are nice and simple but they are kinda bulky and in really adverse weather they can become a liability. If you use a sling to remove the motor off the inflatable then the inflatable can be easily hoisted/lifted and stored on deck. I most often see them over the coach roof. With an electric pump they can even be stored partially deflated to minimize their bulkiness.

Or... you can just tow the dinghy. If your travels are mostly coastal in nature it might not be worth the effort of dragging it up on deck at all. Even that Bahamas cruise is more coastal-like than offshore. In decent weather the inflatable can be snubbed up tight off the stern, lifting the bow out of the water reduces their drag significantly. Inflatables are pretty draggy to tow normally. Then again on a boat so much larger than mine maybe the drag isn't the issue it would be for me.

-Britton

[Tim]

George,

If you're going inflatable, I would seriously consider a RIB instead of the inflatable floor version. They just make such better utility boats--more carrying capacity, drier inside and out, and far more useful overall. They hold the large engines well, are fast and stable, less susceptible to damage from beaching or dragging onto docks, and safer to use under power or even oars.

All inflatables row poorly, though, but the ones with fiberglass hulls have a chance, at least. Note that this can be a true safety issue if your motor quits, so it's something to think about. Carry a good anchor, in any case...something else that's easier to do in an RIB than an inflatable floor model.

Having an excellent dinghy for cruising is a must. Don't skimp here if you plan any real cruising. Davits would work on your C&C, and are pretty convenient in a lot of ways, looks notwithstanding. There's plenty of room on the foredeck too, but hauling large dingies on and off the deck can be a hassle.

Most of the time, there's no need to lift the dinghy; towing astern works well in most sailing conditions in coastal waters. Always take the motor off the stern when towing, though. Get one of those good engine davits if you go with anthing over about a 4 horse.

If you do plan to frequently raise and lower the dink, though, I think davits are the most convenient way to go. Ugly, yes...but undeniably convenient and effective. For the sort of rougher weather you might run into on any coastal cruise, they'd be fine; true offshore work requires its own set of storage solutions, but we're not talking about that here.

I happened to choose a hard fiberglass dinghy and oars for my own cruising, which is nice because I like to row, and the distances in Maine are rarely long enough to make this a true inconvenience. We did buy a small outboard for "utility" days, when multiple trips are required. I love to row, and rowing is a large part of my cruising activity when we're in harbor. But for long-term cruising, and cruising in many areas where longer-length dinghy excursions (such as for snorkeling and such in the tropics) are perhaps more important, it's hard to beat the utility and speed of an RIB. I'd miss the rowing greatly, but I'd consider an RIB if I were seriously cruising and if I had room to store kayaks or other rowing/paddling conveyence on board too.

I wouldn't bother with an inflatable unless it was an RIB, personally. Non-RIBs are just full of too many compromises to be truly excellent dinghies. Remember that your dinghy is your station wagon when cruising--you need to haul people, gear, food, laundry, water, fuel, ice, and whatever else, often from less than perfect docks or beaches. You will never regret an excellent dinghy, but may well regret anything that approaches a compromise.

I prefer to row whenever I can: it's quiet, soothing, good exercise, and generally far more enjoyable. Sometimes, though, it'd be undeniably nice to have a speedy RIB at the ready to go explore somewhere else without having to move the boat to get closer.

Maybe I need one of these new Shadow Boats to follow me around carrying all my various dinghy needs.

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi Tim and Britton,


Thanks for the information! At first I was leaning towards a wood or fiberglass rowing dinghy myself. I enjoy rowing and am in pretty good shape. I would still probably go that way if I was just doing the trip North. However, all the reading I've been doing about cruising the Abaco's, Exuma's, and Bahama's suggests that it is extremely difficult to row a dinghy down there. The distances over the coral shelfs are measured in miles, the currents are very strong and unpredictable, and the trade winds are blowing at a steady 17 - 22 knots.

I'm not familar with RIB's but will check them out. I don't mind spending some money on this as it looks like we will be doing several long cruises over the next few years.

If you guys have any suggestions on size for the RIB please pass it along. Or a particular brand or model in mind. I'm very inexperienced when it comes to dinghys and I'm not sure what carrying capacity I need it to have or who makes the good models. In the books I'm reading everybody seems to use something different. The only thing they seem to agree on is that it has to have a good motor.


Thanks again,

George


P.S. -- I will be outfitting the boat with a watermaker, so I won't need the dinghy to ferry water. I will need it for everything else though.

[JetStream]

Just another comment to throw in the fray. If you have any fondness for a hard dinghy instead of an inflatable, a "nesting" dinghy could be an option. It then becomes easier to store a larger dinghy on deck and also has the advantage of making it a sailing or motoring or rowing dinghy. An example (Spindrift by B&B Yacht Design) can be found at http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/spin.htm. It is an easy boat to build and there are a few builders that will make one for you if you didn't want to make one yourself.

[Case]

If you're going to the Carribbean... A RIB is a must. From what I have read, distances from where you anchor your boat to whatever destination you are going often are very long. This is mainly why many Carribbean cruisers believe in RIBS with largish outboards.

I would suggest you go to to the CSBB (google CSBB) and ask the forum members there what inflatable are best and so on. Many forum members cruise in the Carribbean and can tell you what works and what doesn't.

If you want a recommendation from me, I suggest an Avon RIB, particularly one that is 10 feet long. 10 feet long is better than 8 1/2 feet long and it will be faster with the same horsepower outboard as compared to the smaller RIB. If you do not want to pay the extra for Avons (they do cost more than other inflatables), at least ALWAYS get the inflatable made with Hypalon materials. Any other materials like PVC as commonly found in cheaper inflatables will distingerate in the sun due to UV rays.

As for new outboards, I suggest the Yamaha 8 hp 2 Stroke. 4 Stroke outboards SUCK for inflatables, especially if you want to plane quickly and well. You see... those 4 stroke outboards only really start to push well higher up in the rpm range. And they are typically 20 LBS heavier for the same hp and 20 LBS is an awful lot for a boat 10 feet or less.

Those 2 stroke Yamahas have a premix mode of 100:1. That is why they are still legal even today though time is defintely running out on those 2 stroke Yamahas. One guy I know had a 9.8 hp Tohatsu 4 stroke. He hated it because he could only plane when he was almost at full throttle. He returned the outboard and got a 8 hp Yamaha 2 stroke and it went slightly faster and was able to plane at half throttle. It was 20 LBS lighter and the only downside was that... it burned slightly more gas as compared to the 4 stroke 9.8. Ask other long term cruisers in the Carribbean and you will find out that they only like 2 strokes. The 15 hp Yamaha 2 stroke is a favorite though I personally feel its rather too heavy and bulky. 8 hp would be fine for me, especially if its on a 10 foot RIB.

If you're willing to go used, the 9.8 hp 2 stroke Tohatsu/Nissans are great because they are only 58 LBS. That is less than some 4 stroke 5 hp outboards sold today!

That's about my 2 cents for today... I have more to say but do not want to bore anyone to death...

- Case

[radicalcy]

George,
Most of my cruiser customers (west marine) use hard dinghys and stow them on the cabin top. Many use nested 2 part dinghys. The smaller the engine you can get by with the better, unless you want to hang the dinghy from davits with the motor in place.Think about who will be helping you to lower the motor to the dinghy, in the water, and whether you really want to be lifting 50-60 lbs in and out of a rocking,bobbing boat. There are motor mounts that allow for rotating the motor to keep it upright while hanging the dinghy from the davits. Because of the high rate of theft in the Caribbean, you never want to leave the boat in the water,tied to your cruising yacht. Ugly is better, because it's too noticeable for thieves to hide. Mine is bright orange and grey, and no self respecting thief would touch it. It is hypalon, and has never lost air. New, around $2500, I bought it for $250 in a consignment shop a couple of years ago. I replaced the marine ply floors with starboard, painted the transom and tops of the tubes. It's not pretty, but it's entirely functional, and even if someone stole it, I wouldn't be out of pocket a great deal of money.
Like you , for now, most of my sailing is in the Lower Chesapeake.
I prefer an inflatable, simply because it can be weeks or months between uses, and I like to be able to stow it in the sail locker, or up under the cockpit in the 1/4 berth.
Mine is an older Toyo,around 9 feet, with a hard transom and a removable floor and inflating keel (floor stiffener) I use a 31/2 hp two cycle. I can install the floor boards, inflate the dinghy, mount the motor and go, in about 15 minutes by myself. Unlike alot of folks, I don't find that rowing is an issue, unless I need to travel any distance. (say, a mile)
See below for link to a diy nesting dinghy.
Larry Wilson
http://www.yachtvalhalla.net/gecko/gecko.html

[Tim]

If you ask 50 people, you'll get 50 opinions on what the "best" dinghy is. Each opinion is right as far as that person goes, but the actual choice that is correct for you is a bit more involved than that.

It helps if you can first determine which of the several basic dinghy types (RIB, inflatable, traditional) is truly right for you, and then solicit specific advice to narrow it down from there. Each individual has their own needs and situations that determined why they chose the dinghy they did; obviously, your own needs may differ, so the choice or others may not be best for you.

Personal taste, budget (or willingness to pay), intended use, intended cruising area, size of the parent vessel, and availability of acceptable dinghy storage on board and/or ability to tow safely are some of the many criteria that have determined others' dinghy choices. The number of variables is high, so if you don't have a clear idea of what you need, it's easy to get confused, or even led in the wrong direction by well-meaning advice.

It's really not possible to find one little boat that truly does it all. It's always a matter of give and take, so be sure to take that into account.

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi Again All,


I would like to thank everybody for all the great advice. I've certainly learned a lot about dinghys over the last couple of days. As advised, I did spend a lot of time reviewing various cruising message boards and personal boat owner logs. Especially those down in the Bahamas or Carribbean. Lots of good advice. Most of it, however, appears to be what's good at a certain price point.

For example, nobody seems to disagree with the premise that a 10 or 11 foot RIB made from Hypalon material with a 10 - 15 hp outboard that is hung from high quality davits is the best way to go. All for just under ( or just above ) $7,000. In other words - very nice if you can afford it.

From here opinions start to diverge. Lots of people in the $3,000 range like high pressure floors and keels combined with 5 hp motors. These dinghy's are most often hung from a spare halyard and rest against the lifelines or are stored on deck. Many stories about these people getting stuck because the dinghy couldn't make distance to windward once it was loaded with gear. Many more stories about these people having a good time anyway by hanging out at the local dockside tavern waiting for the wind to drop. Sailors appear to be very resourceful.

In the $500 to $1,500 range are the very cheap inflatables with small used outboards or small fiberglass and wood models with oars or a little kicker. Many more stories about these sailors being even more resourceful. Possibly having even more fun. The tactic appears to be rowing hard for a bit, tossing out an anchor and resting while enjoying a "Red Stripe". This method is repeated as necessary until the distance is covered or the sailor passes out.

Lot's of fun researching this one. There are tons of funny stories about people in dinghy's out there on the net.

At the moment I'm leaning towards an Achilles 10'2" RIB with either a 15hp Tohatsu 4 stroke outboard or a 9.9hp Yamaha 2 stroke outboard. Everything hung by davits. The C&C 40 is big enough that this won't look too awful and the RIB powerful enough to get the job done in most conditions.

Any thoughts on the 4 stroke vs. the 2 stroke or reccomendations on davits would be most welcome.


George

[Case]

I believe in 4 strokes... as long its on a non-planing boat or on a largish boat that can handle the additional weight (by this, I meant 15 plus feet long). But for a 10 foot RIB, I would recommend the 2 Stroke Yamahas.

I believe in less is more. There are no cams, no moving valves on a 2 stroke and that reduces moving parts and significantly reduces weight. From my bookmarks (yes, I am weird and I keep bookmarks on almost all marine engines)... 9.9 HP and 15 HP Yamaha 2 stroke weights 79 LBS for the 15" shaft versions. The Tohatsu (or Nissan, Mercury and Mariner) 15 hp 4 stroke weights 115 LBS. That's significant in my book. There may be times you need to haul the engine all by yourself and 115 is a huge difference from 79 LBS even if its "only" 36 LBS.

There's also the maintenance question. Don't forget that you gotta change the oil eventually on a 4 Stroke. You totally eliminate that part with a 2 Stroke (other than the gearcase oil). Sure, you gotta change the spark plugs more often but that's easier and less messy than changing the oil.

If you still prefer the 4 strokes which I certainly understand from an environmental standpoint... All I can say is that Yamaha also offers a two stroke 25 hp engine that weights only 106 LBS. Now, a 10 foot RIB with a 25 horse engine... WHOO! (not recommended unless you want the unique experience of seeing your own transom and outboard pass by you)

One last thing you may want to investigate in is... Service. Its unpleasant to think of but you gotta consider what to do if your engine goes kaput. From what I know, Yamaha is more prevalent in the Caribbean than Tohatsu. I could be wrong, though so don't take my word on this.

- Case

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi Case,


Thanks for all the information. You were certainly correct in what you said about the Carribbean cruisers -- A 10 or 11 foot RIB and an 8 - 10 hp 2 stroke engine plus a good set of davits -- Almost every one of the serious cruisers down there reccommended that setup. And you are right about them absolutely hating 4 stroke motors for their inflatables.

One point that kept coming up was something that Tim mentioned in his first post about RIB's being safer that pure inflatables. After reading a bunch of websites and message boards, the RIB's do seem to have a much larger safety margin on the water. Lot's of stories of pure inflatables heading into 20 knots of trade wind at 15 knots ( for a combined 35 knots of wind ), bouncing off a wave, catching the wind slightly off center and fliping the boat over. The RIB's don't seem to have this problem as much. The RIB's also appear to be much more stable when being launched into the surf. One downside of the RIB's that my research turned up is that they can require a bit of muscle to drag them up high on a beach.

So my final setup appears to be a 10'2" Achilles RIB with a Yamaha 9.9 hp 2 stroke outboard. The RIB weighs in at 127 lbs. and the motor at 79 lbs. for a total weight of 206 lbs. Total cost with shipping around $4,900. It seems like a lot of $$$ but I'll be down there for three months straight not to mention a month or so cruise up to New England next summer. It will be fun to have on the Chesapeake as well.

On to the Davits...

Most davits are rated to 250 lbs. I don't think that this is going to make it for my setup though. I'm looking at the Navigator 350 davit system ( rated at 350 lbs. ) with a couple of stabalizer bars for added ridigity. ( I have the equipment to work stainless steel tubing at the sail loft so I'll do the stabilizer bars myself ) The total cost for this outfit is around $1,350 with shipping. The website for this davit setup is here.

http://www.islandmarineproducts.com/navigator_350.htm


Any other advice is welcome,

George Jones

[Duncan]

Any other advice is welcome

Since you haven't had a dinghy before, or been cruising in your intended areas, maybe building some experience and seeing what you like would be a good way to sneak up on this? Perhaps getting a used inflatable, or an inexpensive hard dink, and taking it up to Block Island would be worthwhile. You can always sell it (or keep it) when you see how you like it: I'm just leery of all the "you gotta get a RIB" opinions on the internet.

I've been to the Bahamas a few times, and up and down the Windward Islands even more, and my experience is that "a dink is a dink". I've never been unable to get to shore, or capsized, or prevented from doing anything I wanted to do in either a hard dink or an inflatable. On the other hand, I'm perfectly comfortable in a canoe or a sailing dinghy or a rowboat. Some people aren't, and for them, the stability and the engine of a RIB may be the best thing.

(For a safe offshore passage, having to stow a big RIB, plus a liferaft, strikes me as quite a challenge on the deck of your C&C 40. I certainly wouldn't want it hanging off my stern, and I wouldn't want it getting in the way of what I had to do on deck either!)

Anyway, sailing is very individual, and perhaps you will be most satisfied if you try things out first, and then get what you and your crew are most comfortable with?

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi Duncan,


Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I really appreciate info from someone who has been there and done that! I also spent about 30 minutes this morning talking with a friend of mine in the Yacht Club who has done a combined 7 trips to the Abacos and the Windward Island's. I'm also spending some time tomorrow morning talking with Defender industry's dinghy expert -- Vice president Stephen Lance.

There are so many things to consider here. This may take me a few minutes but I'll try to map out my evolution of thought on this matter so you can see where I'm coming from. ( hopefully make it clearer to myself too )

First... A small wood or fiberglass dinghy or a somewhat inexpensive inflatable were the first options that came to my mind. What has steered me away from them were the stories of the dink banging against the boat, tipping over, being a really wet ride, slow or unable to make progress at all, prone to holes in the floor, etc. I agree with you that these are all things that can be overcome by a prudent, patient, and experienced operator.

Second... The other thing that steered me away from the non-RIB's was the progression that you talked about. Almost every story went the same way -- hard dink to roll up inflatable to wood or aluminum floored inflatable to RIB. I figured, why put myself through the headachs that everyone else seems to suffer just to eventually end up with a RIB anyway. Having owned the other dinghys before I bought the RIB might make me appreciate the RIB more -- but is that really necessary?

Third... Finally, it was the lack of RIB complaints. People with hard dinks complained about them banging against the boat, being a wet ride, slow speed, flooding, etc. People with roll up inflatables complained about lack of good planing ability, overall stability, punctures, carrying capacity, etc. People with aluminum floor inflatable dink's complained about burning their feet. On and on and on the complaints went which turned into the above mentioned progression. The only people who seemed to never complain were the ones that owned a good RIB with a good two stroke motor. ( outside of the one complaint about the overall weight of a RIB being difficult to drag up high on a beach )

The above three items are what drove me to seriously look at a RIB with a good 2 stroke motor and some good davits.

Now my friend, who was mentioned way back in paragraph #1, did all his trips with a hard dink or a roll up inflatable although he often spent time on friends RIB's. I asked him, given the choice and the $$$, which would he prefer -- a hard dink, a simple roll up inflatable, a high pressure floor/keel roll up inflatable, a wood or aluminum slatted floor inflatable or a RIB. He said a RIB because they were easy to use and could carry a lot, although, like you, he doesn't believe they are absolutely necessary.

As to storing the RIB. Its deflated size is about 7.5' by 4.5'. My C&C 40 is pretty big at 39'7" by 12'10"' and 20,000 lbs. loaded displacement. The foredeck is 16' long and the cabin top is 10' long. If push really came to shove I could put it up in the V-Berth which is 8' long by 8' wide at the base of the triangle. However, I wasn't thinking about any storage position other than the extra strong and cross braced davits I'm getting for the boat. Every boat I've ever seen sail into the Chesapeake or sail past it's mouth has either been towing the dinghy or, if it had davits, the dinghy was suspended from the davits and locked in tight against the stern rail. I'll just be coastal cruising so hopefully I'll be able to avoid any really nasty weather. However, if I'm wrong about my idea of storing the dinghy on its davits please let me know! I do need to work all this stuff out before I make a purchase. Note: I have VHF, SSB, and Ham radio on the boat and track the weather pretty closely whenever I'm cruising so I should be able to lash the RIB to the deck before anything truly nasty hits me.


Once again, any additional advice is very welcome!

George


P.S. -- I need to make one point before this becomes the longest message ever posted. I do believe in the spirit of what Duncan is saying in his post. Bigger and more expensive is not always better. One thing that became very clear as I read all those message boards and personal cruising web sites is that the people with the really nice big boats and the really nice dinghys weren't having nearly as much fun as the people in the old 30 footers and tiny dinghys. It was if all that nice stuff caused people to worry more about their boats and their gear than actually having a good time cruising.

[Tim]

The only "musts" in terms of dinghy type are that whatever you choose does what you expect and need it to do. There is no single "right" type. Some dinghies are popular only because they are popular--not necessarily because it's the best one. Conversely, sometimes populartiy is based on truly good characteristics.

I wouldn't go inflatable unless I went RIB; other than cost and storability, RIBs are superior in all ways to traditional inflatable boats. But traditional inflatables have their benefits too, mostly in terms of the ability to stow them. Sometimes, this can be nice, but few people actually do this with the larger, more modern inflatable boats. If you're not going to routinely deflate and store the boat, then this becomes an "advantage" that really is inapplicable.

That said, I have chosen a traditional rowing dinghy in my Fatty Knees, so obviously at this stage I have determined that I don't need an RIB. I did choose a solid, high-capacity, and good-rowing dinghy to ensure that it would do what was needed for the cruising I do now. I have no way to store this dinghy on board, however, but that doesn't matter since it works fine to tow astern for the sailing that I do.

Every type has its limitations. (Un)common sense and prudence clearly dictate what should and shouldn't be done with any type of dinghy. The people who get into trouble in any aspect of life or sport are usually the ones who think they can always "best" the elements and challenges ahead, often leading to imprudent, Darwin Award-winning behavior. This certainly goes for dinghies, too. Casting off in an old Avon Redcrest with a sputtery 1975 Johnson and two plastic oars, in the face of a 25-knot headwind, will typically lead to a story of woe. Using the same setup on a benign summer evening will lead to a confident success story.

You could get by with a plywood box. There would be times you wouldn't want to use it, of course, but for most coastal cruising it would get you to shore just about whenever you needed it. However, this is unlikely to be a very satisfying setup in the long run, and would certainly be limiting at times. But you'd still be cruising and having fun.

Serious, long-range cruisers have different needs for their dinghies than sometime-coastal cruisers. When a dinghy is being used every day for years or some indefinite period of time, durability and true utility become far more important. So does the ability to travel longer distances in the dinghy, perhaps.

Something else to consider, based on some of your comments in your last post: RIBs are real boats; they really are not something you can deflate and stow anywhere but on deck. The size of the hulls is akin to a true rigid dinghy, and they're not something that would fit into the cabin of any normal sailboat out there--even if they'd physically fit in an interior space, the openings leading to that space are rarely this large. Therefore, regardless of the small space savings afforded by deflating the tubes, from a practical standpoint no one ever does this with an RIB. I don't think I've ever even seen an RIB in any form other than with the pontoons fully inflated. Cruisers with these boats tend to have davits, or tow them astern.

For some reason, discussions like this always come around to "offshore" sailing, and what to do then. But that's not what we're talking about here at all. If you wanted to sail across a whole ocean, then towing or using davits isn't necessarily a viable option--though both have been done many times. If you decide to cross the ocean, then you'll figure out what to do with the dink at that juncture. But why worry about it now, when all the trips you've mentioned can be considered coastal cruising? Stay in port when the weather's bad.

The experience of others is valuable to someone like you, George, who is truly at a a quandary regarding the best type of dinghy to use, since you've never really used one. I don't see a flaw in your reasoning and in jumping a few steps in the process to bring you to a place that others have found to be extremely satisfactory, dinghy-wise. You've already chosen to jump to a large, comfortable, and not-quite-simple boat. You're not going cruising to rough it and see how little you can do with. You're going cruising to enjoy the sailing and varied scenery and locales, and to relax. Your dinghy should match this.

This isn't a time to worry about what the least you can get away with is; it's a time to figure out what's truly best for you. I think you've done much research into this, and have clearly drawn conclusions that make sense for you. Just because "less" may be OK doesn't mean it's the right choice for you; neither does your choice need to be the largest, most expensive setup available either.

[Duncan]

Good morning, George

I'd say you've got an awfully good handle on the issues, and I really can't fault you on your plan. A RIB is stable, fast and comfortable, and it seems to address the preferences of many sailors in a fairly workable way. Observation suggests that most people are quite willing to put up with the weight and the outboard and the davits, and don't mind trading off the ability to row or sail "properly". In return, they get a very convenient all-around dinghy that has a lot going for it.

As noted, I'd take some of the stories with a grain of salt - I've ever encountered conditions so bad I couldn't row through them, but that's just one man's view. I'd like to think I'd prefer a rowing/sailing dinghy, but it's academic at this point. In 25 feet, I use an inflatable (but I don't mind saying that it's pretty awful, except for the fact that it's better than swimming).

I didn't mean to imply that your C&C 40 isn't BIG, or doesn't have a lot of room on deck. (I also didn't realize that deflating the collar on your RIB would shrink it so much). The particulars of your deck arrangement are something you can size up better than anyone else, but if you're coast-hopping in decent weather, I doubt there's much of a seaworthiness issue with respect to the davits. I guess the more you can reinforce them, the better, but I'm sure you've been thinking about that already!

[Summersdawn]

outside of the one complaint about the overall weight of a RIB being difficult to drag up high on a beach

This can easily be overcome by some of those fold up plastic wheels that mount on the transom.

As Tim pointed out, every cruiser's needs are different, and everyone will have to come to there own conclusions as to what kind of dinghy will work best for them.

To me, it seems as though you have thought this through, and your conclusions seems to be a RIB. They are wonderful, and you will love it.

If I had the space and money, it is the route I would go. I don't, so I have a hard dinghy that rows well, and will take a small outboard. I am content with this. It does what I need it to do. The only real advantage that a RIB would have to me is the ability to travel farther distances. I could leave my boat anchored in a bay, hop in the RIB, head out fishing, or run in to a marina for some ice, beer, steaks and some ice cream cones for the kids, and be back at the boat in a short while. Would this make cruising funner than using the sailboat for this? No, just more convenient.

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi Tim, Duncan, Rick, Case, Jetstream, Larry, and Britton,


I really appreciate all the thoughtful advice.

I just got done talking with another Bahama's cruiser who uses a hard fiberglass and wood dink and has only rarely been unhappy with it. He knows that I scuba dive to keep my sailboats race-ready and said that a good RIB can be used as a dive platform or as a fishing platform while on vacation. I hadn't really thought of that until I saw Rick's posting and heard my friends comments as I have always used the main boat for scuba diving and for fishing. It would be nice to be able to zip out to a reef for diving or a flat for stalking bonefish and leave the main boat safely anchored. For him, this is the only reason to own a RIB. Otherwise, he likes the hard dink just fine in the Bahamas.

I also talked with Stephen Lance at Defender and freight shipping of a RIB runs $245 to the Williamsburg, VA area. As I'm writing this, Stephen is discounting a good bit of his current RIB stock to make way for the 2007 models. The discount should offset the shipping. Stephen is a big fan of the Avon 310 RIB's as well and is getting me some additional info on them. We will see where all the features and prices end up.

I'm heading out of town for a few days and will make a decision on this stuff when I get back Monday or Tuesday. Thanks again to everybody who offered their wisdom!


George Jones

[Mark.Wilme]

I can tell you what we have settled on for our Beneteau 39 footer ...


We have a 9ft West Marine inflatable with the high pressure floor and a 2 stroke Mercury 3.3 that starts first pull (really, it does).


I can probably carry it on my swim platform, I know I can tow it and I know I can put it in the lazarette too. I have a babystay so I can't fit it in front of the mast, but I did do a 2 day trip 'the journey home' with it half deflated and lashed between the cabin top traveller and the mast.

That's my 2c.

[radicalcy]

George,
Defender runs a warehouse sale every year, with extremely deep discounts on inflatables. You might ask when this event is scheduled to take place this year.
Larry

[Figment]

Defender's warehouse sale is typically the last weekend in march or the first weekend in april.
Larry is right, I can't imagine a better opportunity for a sweet deal on a new inflatable, and it's absolutely the best place to get hooked up with the entire package of boat, motor, davits, tshirt, hat, keychain, and rub-on-tattoo.

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi Guys,


Just got in and saw the info about the Defender warehouse sale. I'm going to be talking to Stephen Lance over at Defender either tomorrow afternoon or on Tuesday. I'll ask him about the sale. He's already made me a couple of good offers on last years models and a very good deal on a 2005 Avon. and I'll see what we can work out.

The very first people I'm talking to on Monday are the makers of OMS heavy duty davit systems, the makers of the Navigator 350 davit system, and the makers of the Kato Marine island model davits. All of these guys make davit systems that mount to the stern as well as the stern rail, are cross braced, can cary solar panels if needed, and can hold an 11 foot RIB with an attached 15 hp four stroke engine. These davit systems look exactly like regular "Nova" davits but the tubing is much thicker, type 316 stainless, sometimes double walled or bumped up in size to 1.25", and with extra trusses and cross braces to handle side loading from leaving the engine on the dink while at anchor or making short hops. This is a little more than I need but in my discussions with Stephen he said that there is "no such thing as overkill" when it comes to davits. I'll talk with the davit guys about my installation and e-mail them some pictures to make sure we can get a strong system attached to my boat. Hopefully one that will be able to clear the swim ladder as well.

If I can get a strong davit system lined up for my boat I'll get one of the 10' 2" RIBs. Otherwise, I'll have to go with something lighter.

I'll keep you posted.


George


P.S. Found a bunch more personal web sites of people cruising the Bahamas, Abaco's, and Exuma's over the weekend. Lot's of great info out there on the web!

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi All,


Looks like the davits will be fine for what I'm doing so I went ahead and made the purchase of the RIB.

Stephen Lance over at Defender and I have continued to exchange e-mails over the past few days talking about the pro's and con's of the various brands out there. His feeling is that the very best RIB out there is the Avon 310 RIB in Hypalon. They are a little heavier than the Achilles but offer a deeper v for handling chop and are a bit drier. They also work extremely well as a dive or spearfishing platform.

The Avon is a few hundred more at $3,199 for the 2007's than the 2007 Achilles model. However, he made me a deal on one of two light gray colored last years models he has there in his warehouse. A price of $2,499 which is even less than 2006 Achilles. The gray is what I was getting anyway because it goes with the S&S blue of my hull and I thought the price was very generous. The other one is now posted for sale on their website at the same $2,499 price if anybody wants it.


Thanks to everybody who helped me with this decision,

George

[Case]

George... If you're looking for a 9.9 or 15 hp 2 Stroke Yamaha outboard, I just looked at this website...

http://www.onlineoutboards.com/

I knew of this website for a long time, actually I got it from this forum. I think Tim Lackey bought a Tohatsu outboard from them. I could be wrong, though. They specialize in selling Tohatsu or Nissan outboards online.

Even though they really only sell Tohatsu or Nissan outboards, they offer 2 Stroke Yamahas for sale. They do not normally sell Yamahas so I noticed their sale immediately. You might want to check it out. I noticed that even though the Yamahas are 2 strokes, they cost a fair amount more than the 9.8 hp Tohatsu 4 strokes. There goes my theory about 2 strokes being cheaper than 4 strokes!

Good luck with your future RIB.

- Case

[Tim]

Yes...I bought my Tohatsu from Online Outboards. I thought their prices were good, and the service/shipping was good too.

[Mark.Wilme]

George - you have two posts going and you asked a question on the other one which is now locked so....

We live in Hopkinton, MA - where the marathon begins (interestingly most marathons are named after where hey start, not where they finish, not ours) and we keep the boat at the head of Narragansett bay, RI (Portsmouth).
It's an hour by car.

So I can live near work and have a 15 minute commute 5 days a week and an hours commute each weekend, or I could live near the boat and have an hours commute each day to work and a short drive to the boat each weekend. Truth is my boat drive is less than the commute of many of the people I work with.

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi Mark,

Sounds good. That's a beautiful area in which to live.

I understand the commute thing too. My wife and I also live right next to where we work and make the 1/2 hour commute out to the boats when we need to.

George

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Hi Case and Tim,


Thanks for the note about the outboards. I've been tracking a few different websites including onlineoutboards.com over the last two weeks. Some offer free shipping some offer a $200 lower price and then charge $200 for shipping. Some are 2005's, 2006's, or 2007's. In the end, Chris over at Onlineoutboards.com, was able to get me a new model at $45 off the online sale price and the shipping was included. So at this point I am the new owner of a Yamaha 9.9 2 stroke.

I've now got the dinghy and outboard and am still working on the davits. I'll post a photo when the whole thing is set up ( probably in the Spring sometime )


Thanks to everyone who helped with this,


George Jones