Port Frames

[heartofgold]

Good day to all!

Once again, I have a quandry, this time concerning my ports. I have an Ensenada 20 (manufactured in a couple of different forms from 1972-78). The plexiglass needs to be replaced, but the outer frame (plastic) was glued more than 25 years ago. The frame is extremely brittle: I broke a corner simply working it to see if there was any give at the glue joint. I took the pieces to a reputable glass/plexiglass company and they do not believe that the old glass can be removed without destroying the plastic frame. I pretty much agree with that assessment.

I do not believe I will be able to find replacement frames for this boat, leaving me with few options (none of which I like). Consider these and tell me what you think:

1) The glass company has offered to cut the pieces and cut and install the plexiglass with a conventional rubber gasket. I do not think that this will survive a marine environment over an extended period of time, and I don't want them scratching my new Awlgrip during the installation.

2) I can clean up and repair the old, cracked frames, and polish the scratches out of the glass, but I have been told I will not be able to remove the cloudiness.

3) I can use a more modern method and use an oversized piece overlaying the outside with tinted plexiglass and skip the frame, as is seen on Hunters and the like. YUK!

4) I could order custom frames, but I cannot imagine that that would be any sort of reasonable (financial) alternative.

5) Lastly (from my perspective) I could make my own frames custom from mahogany. I have the skill and tools to do this, and it would certainly complement the custom mahogany I have already added to the boat. My initial thoughts on this, however, suggest that it may not be the best way to seal the glass, and annual maintenance (sanding and varnishing right up to the glass) would be a nightmare.

Any other options or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again to everyone. This group has been an extremely valuable resource for me. Look forward to hearing your informed and creative answers.

[Dave, 397]

Hi, Doug---

Wood frames could be a good option, but you might wish to choose teak or ironwood instead as they need only periodic oiling/light sanding. I have, though, seen various "teak oils" discolor plex...so Lexan II, or a generic "tempered polycarbonate" equivalent (available as offcut by the pound at most industrial plastics outfits) might be a better choice for the panes...I'd still make every effort to keep all of the oil off of the panes if I could.

Another possibility would be to have replacement port frames machined from aluminum, which you could then paint. This is fairly simple mill work, and one can often find an inexpensive deal on the jobs by paying a visit to the local tech college. I have found over time that the instructors will usually hook you up with the right student if you inquire nicely. The billet material can get costly if you want to do opening ports, but for fixed ports the parts can be made quite easily from pieces of 3/8" plate. This is often available for pennies a pound from your local aluminum boatbuilders of a larger fabrication shop...I have gotten pieces over 2-1/2 feet square out of scrap bins, which were destined for the recyclers! The finished parts can then be painted by yourself or by the friendly auto body shop.

If you need opening ports built, you might check at an aircraft surplus outlet (like Boeing Surplus in Seattle...but nearer to you, hehe!) for chunks of billet material. Again, when purchased this way these are offcuts and are usually sold at the scrap value per pound.

Good Luck,
Dave

[Tim]

I vote for the wood. I think if you bed the ports into the wood before applying finish, you will get a good bond--as least as good as bonding to metal or plastic. And what's a little extra wood to maintain, with all else that you are adding? Your maintenance wouldn't be that bad if you keep up with it--certainly no worse than my continuing stubborn folly lacquering the bronze port frames.

[David]

Here is info concerning Go Marine Plastics, now owned by:
Mark Plastics, 369 E. Harrison St., Unit G, Corona, Calif. 92879, Phone: 909-735-7705, Fax: 909-735-0701

They will make you new, high quality plastic ports to replace what you have at a reasonable cost. Please give them a call at least and talk to them.

David

[heartofgold]

Thanks for that tip on Go Marine Plastics. I will certainly consider them and give them a call before I make any final decisions. If they can do something for a reasonable price, I believe plastic may be my best option. With that said, I have figured out a way to do it out of wood, using a router and the original frame as a guide. But again, as of now verdict is still out and I am still trying to keep an open mind.

[heartofgold]

David,

That was the tip I needed! As it turns out, they were the original manufacturer of my port frames, and they still have the original templates. Their price is higher than I would like to pay, but is in reality, very reasonable. In spite of the unwelcome and unexpected expense (is any expendature on a boat "welcome"?), I will probably have them mill me some new ones. In the long term, I feel this will be the best choice. Again, thanks!

[David]

Doug,

I'm glad it worked out for you. Nothing much better than gettting new ports for an older boat.

Take care,

David

[heartofgold]

Well, my new ports should be delivered today, but I need some recomendations on a bedding compound. The glass is "suspended" withing the frame, and only the frame itself (plastic) will be in contact with the bedding compound.

What recomendations does anyone have for a bedding compound suitable for plastic. I also have other plastic hardware (Harken bases) which need to be mounted.

Ideas?

[Figment]

Though it may be overkill, my gut is to go with butyl rubber sealant on this one.
However, because your frames are plastic, not metal, the stuff that comes as a "tape" (an oval bead of sealant laid on paper tape, then rolled up for sale) from the glass shop may be too firm for the frames to compress without cracking.
You may need to find butyl in a tube, which is softer. The rub is that it's never simply labeled "butyl rubber sealant" on the tube. You need to hunt for it in the fine print. Start by reading the tubes of sealant marketed for use on rain gutters, that's where I've had the most luck.

[Tim]

I second the vote for butyl. Just be sure whatever you use is compatible with plastic. For example, many plastics are incompatible with polysulfide, so be sure you know.

[Figment]

As far as I know, butyl rubber has no compatibility problems with any plastic. It does have a tendency to stain some materials, though. Before going whole-hog, it would probably be prudent to apply some sealant to the back of a frame, and then try to remove it the next day to see if you can get the stain off. As far as I know, butyl comes in one color.... black.

If nothing else, it'll motivate you to do a nice careful job of masking the frames. :)

[heartofgold]

Black only, huh? Well I feel inspired to do a bumper taping job! Thanks for the tip.

Anyone have any suggestions of trade names to look for?

[Dave, 397]

If you buy it in ribbon form...like the old-timey trim adhesive strip (3M still make it, and it is also still offered in the NAPA/Martin-Seynour paint/body product line...it's brown. This is the same gumbo that Pearson used back when to stick in the port panes, seal the frames, install/seal the companionway parts.

Dave