Shower on a Triton?

[keelbolts]

When you read about a Cape Dory 25D, much is made of it's having a "roomy" head and a shower. Alberg, I think rightly, belived that the v-berth in a 25 foot boat probably wasn't being slept in often, so, on the CD 25D, all that's in the forepeak is a WC and a sink with a shower attachment. To me, it sounds luxurious on a 20-something foot boat. What would be the down side to doing the same thing on a Triton? Is there enough headroom in the forepeak of a Triton to do a similar arrangement?

[dasein668]

There's plenty of headroom if you plan a sitting shower. There definitely isn't standing headroom up there though!

[bcooke]

Is there enough headroom in the forepeak of a Triton to do a similar arrangement?

[I am assuming you are thinking of a stand-up shower.] Not for me at 5'10". Under five foot maybe but I haven't measured up there. There is also a difference with the two cabin styles. I have the higher style so there would be even less headroom in most of the Tritons. The sole is also raised in the V-berth area because the sloping hull gets too narrow at the main cabin sole height.

Tim mentioned to me a few weeks ago (or did I imagine the conversation?) about a Triton he saw that had the cabin sole removed in front of the head. That created enough standing headroom under the lower forward portion of the house to have a shower with the shower-ee standing directly on the ballast. The shower water could then drain directly into the bilge. I am not sure I like the idea of shower water in my bilge but everyone probably has a different opinion on that (hairballs in the tub drain is bad enough for me)

The idea of abandoning the forward double bunk in the V-berth area does offer a lot of intriguing possiblities and I think it is definitely worth considering. For me I like to sleep all stretched out and with my narrowed settees I decided to keep my V-berth. However, removing the berth and putting the head up forward then opens up the original head area. Open up the old head and hanging locker areas and one could move the saloon settees forward (not the full amount as the hull narrows quite a bit at the forward end of the head area at settee height) and expand the galley area in the space vacated by the settees. The small galley is one of the biggest shortcomings of the Triton IMHO. The original V-berth area also has plenty of room to hold more than just the head. You would have to be careful about too much weight but there could be a lot of storage or a miniature shop or something specialized to your needs or hobbies.

A downside is the loss of the nice big V-berth sleeping area. Some people build a pull -out berth in the main saloon but I don't think it ever equals the V-berth. Plus you have to make your bed every morning or stare at it all day.

Depending on your needs I think removing the V-berth could be a good decision.

-Britton

[Robert The Gray]

The shower is made up of the catch basin and/or drain, the sides/curtain to contain splashing, and the spigot/shower head to bring the water. Outdoor showers are glorious except they can be cold, exposed, and the wind can blow the water away. I greatly enjoy a good rinse after a days hard beat to windward, but I know most of that joy comes from the hot water bringing warmth to my cold bones.

All the boat/trailor/caravan showers I have seen did not have an actual seperate stall but used the existing walls to lead things into the drain. I feel that this makes a bit of a mess and is neither a good head, where one could have varnished trim and toilet paper, nor a good shower, which is easy to keep clean and doesn't bruise your elbows.

I have never used one of those Sun Showers but I imagine it is warmer than stuff right out of the tank. If I lived in florida or san diego I would be tempted to get one of their Enclosures and shower in the cockpit. The cockpit already has a drain. If the weather was inclement right at the base of the companion way with the same enclosure would work as well. I do not see much sense in adding a sump and pump to discharge water from the head. I am leery of adding much more organic matter to the bilge even if the shampoo might smell ok for a bit, therefore I would stand in a shallow rubbermade tub and do the shower navy style, wet down, water off, soap up , rinse off. The head in the triton is no more private than the back of a van.

r

[Tim]

Tim mentioned to me a few weeks ago (or did I imagine the conversation?) about a Triton he saw that had the cabin sole removed in front of the head. That created enough standing headroom under the lower forward portion of the house to have a shower with the shower-ee standing directly on the ballast.

Yes, that's true. The owner had built an easily removable section into the cabin sole in the head, and removing that section allowed the shower-er to step several inches lower into the bilge beneath. He said it worked for his wife, in concept anyway. The bilge space here is not particularly wide, and there may be many other potential problems with this idea, but it was done. Who knows how it worked in practice, or how often it was used.

Another Triton owner built a complicated 3-panel, clapboard-type wooden door between the v-berth and the head to allow the head to be used as a shower. I saw this panel in action, and it looked pretty balky and ripe for swelling and poor operation, but it was an interesting concept nonetheless.



I think true showers without a dedicated space are awful, since it just gets the whole area wet. Cleaning up and drying the mess from the shower takes longer than the shower, and afterwards one needs another shower. A dedicated compartment that can truly contain the water and residue makes a lot more sense, even if you only have sitting head room. Of course, it's challenging or impossible to fit this into a small boat, along with everything else.

When you read about a Cape Dory 25D, much is made of it's having a "roomy" head and a shower. Alberg, I think rightly, belived that the v-berth in a 25 foot boat probably wasn't being slept in often, so, on the CD 25D, all that's in the forepeak is a WC and a sink with a shower attachment.

I think the forepeak head has a lot of merit, assuming one doesn't use the v-berth. But don't get too excited about the "roominess" of this space on a Cape Dory 25D. It's still a very compact space, at least at sole level, and hardly offers the expanse that the advertising materials might try to indicate But it's good, usable space, and works well for what it is, and within the inherent confines of such a small boat.

FWIW, Alberg didn't necessarily conceive of the interiors of many of the production boats that he designed. These ideas were at a minimum a collaboration between the builder (and their market-driven forces) and, eventually, the designer. No doubt that Alberg, by all accounts a headstrong individual, imposed plenty of his own will despite the wishes of the builder. There's a story frequently heard with regard to Cape Dory's association with Alberg, in which the builder would continue to ask Alberg (plead, even) to design boats with more beam (to allow for greater interior room). Alberg would accommodate with an inch or three, but never more than that.

I don't like having to put the whole sleeping arrangement away in order to use the cabin (or to force all occupants of the boat to rise or go to bed at the same time), so for us it's more important to have a dedicated sleeping space. In a Triton, for us, that means the v-berth must remain the sleeping area, and this works well for us. The notion of a shower is sort of at odds with such a small, simple boat to begin with, and such a thing never entered into our plans. Besides, the Triton's head space actually works very well given its size, since it's not trying to be forced into a tiny, full enclosure.

For our next boat, Pixie, we are contemplating converting the forward cabin into a head area, though, and installing a pullman-type double berth off to one side, at least in part in the space where the existing head compartment is. Time, and eventual demolition and the actual beginnings of work, will tell whether this is a viable alternative for that particular boat.

I think the forward cabin in a Triton, which is one of the widest spaces of its kind regardless of boat size (compare it with any boat's v-berth and you'll see what I mean), would be a reasonable candidate for conversion to head, storage, and shower. One wouldn't have anything approaching standing headroom, but you could have comfortable sitting headroom. (There's not standing headroom in the existing head location either, unless one is something like 5'-3" or less.

A boat like a Triton is a blank canvas. Not every potential idea for reconfiguring the interior has yet been tried, but thanks to the strong hull shape and construction, and the need for only one main bulkhead in the living space, there is ample opportunity to recreate the interior in a custom way that suits the individual. I see no reason at all to feel bound by convention, or by the existing layout.

[Tom Young]

It really was nothing more than building a grate over the bilge as a drain in the passage between the head and vee berth. The head on the CD 28 was on the port side, wc with a sliding sink/counter over. You sat on the wc or (if you're short) stand on the grate. Water went everwhere including through the saloon and spray into the vee berth.

It was marginal but serviced a few times when the cockpit was not usable. (marina or crowded anchorage).

But we took alot of showers on that boat thanks to the water heater and an easily connected deck hose. The cockpit easily drained and was used for the shower area.

Even on our larger boat at 38', I played around with designing in a shower and realized quickly, it's useless. A shower below on most boats is marginal at best. The clean up Tim mentions used to take a long time on the CD and will result in dampness in cracks and crevices. If you use it alot, you'll never dry the area out.

We still take alot of showers onboard our larger boat but all on deck. You can give someone (like our son and daughter) privacy in the cockpit by going below. The lifelines can hold "curtains" of towels or cockpit cushions propped up in crowded anchorages. We even rigged a round curtain a few times on a length or pvc hoop and shower curtain. I use the wide side decks sailing or at anchor, they drain the fastest and keep the cockpit dry.

I've been in the a CD25D forward head and don't think I would use that very often either for the wet interior it would create. Showers below on most boats I've seen don't seem to work well.

[MikeD]

The former owner of Ariel #50, Frank Durant, did a great job of renovating his Ariel, including building a shower setup in the v-berth. He built a sump for the shower and had a y valve on his bilge pump so he could pump the sump when needed. He got out there cruising to the Bahamas, and reported "I used the inside shower lots. The lil sump worked great and the 'garden type' pump sprayer was easy on water."

(Can't seem to get the pictures to show up like they used to, so here are some links)

Saloon

Shower - set up in v-berth

V-berth w/out shower set up

I've posted this before, but here's a link to his complete restoration (good ideas!):
Revival, Ariel#50

[keelbolts]

First of all, I was only thinking a sitting shower. At over 6', as most of you know, standing up isn't an option anwhere below on a lot of boats.

When I cruise, even if it's on the bay, I like to stay on a hook. Ashore, I never go to bed without a shower. I hate to feel grungy and a day in the sun and spray generally leaves me feeling grungy.

On the bay, we use a Sun Shower and it works like a champ. Often I'll jump over the side, get out, soap up, and jump back in. I then rinse off with the Sun Shower. Then jump into some clean cothes, and splice the mainbrace. That probably works better down south than up north. We once hove to off Martha's Vinyard for a bath. Man was that water cold. You've never heard so much squeeling from a bunch of men.

How about, sealing arond the edges of the bulkheads and & rigging a sit down shower in the existing head? I know you would still introduce moisture into the cabin, but wouldn't that be better than funk below?

One of the reasons I'm putting so much thought into this is that I, now, can. Well, soon anyway. For all of my years sailing, I've been a wooden boater and a smart wooden boater does not spray sweet water inside his boat as sweet water leads to rot. In a plastic boat, I could have a shower. Oh boy!

[Summersdawn]

Solar showers are great. We use them on board our San Juan 24. After even a moderately warm day, the water coming out is pleasant. I live in Canada on Vancouver Island, so the daytime temperatures are warm, but not Florida hot. I plan on making some type of wrap around insulation for it to keep the water warmer through the night, as a morning shower is cool. I think if I can make something our of bubble wrap and velcro, that goes under the solar shower, I can fold the sides up over the top at night to keep the water warmer.

My parents used a tarp my Dad had made up to go around some rigging to make a shower stall. Camping stores have stalls made up that should be easy to hoist. Failing that, in a crowded anchorage, you can always shower with your swim trunks or bathing suit on.

[Quetzalsailor]

We have a shower and diverter plumbed off the head sink faucet; it's original equipment. We have a nice wood interior in the head and wood sole, not to mention that everything else inside the boat is wood, too. So the potential for damp, damaged finishes and eventual rot is not to be forgotten. However, our boat came with an oval-ish shower curtain track running around the overhead and a nasty plastic curtain which hung neatly forward of the mast. Deployed, it directs most of the water down to the sole with its teak grate and sump. We replaced the icky plastic with a fabric shower curtain which looks better and doesn't cling (Ikea!). The earlier boats had no curtain.

Works fine for my wife but the head's not really big enough nor is the hot water capacity enough for my taste in showers.

[Tom Young]

It sounds like your wife sent the one we recieved while on vacation. Sorry to miss you and I hope you had a good time in the area.

Your original shower idea sounds like as good as it gets. In a pinch, it's workable. I had friends who lived aboard a Southern Cross 39 that had a shower stall in the head. They still didn't use it and opted for a deck shower. Still too much of a moisture probelem below.

[Hirilondë]

My boss owns a beautifully maintained Little harbor 53. He has 2 interior showers, one in each head. Last winter I spent a week repairing rotted teak plywood in the aft head. Then the varnishers were busy for at least another week. The forward head shower must have been used a lot less since it is in quite good shape still. I think all boat showers should be enclosed fiberglass stalls with no seems or up on deck. Add in the soap scum, dampness etc. to the damage and I see little justification for an interior shower if you can't control the water and residual effects.

[keelbolts]

...boy am I bummed. You guys are taking all the fun out of owning a plastic boat...