Are what I have on my boat blisters? If so, do I have to open each and every one of those little half moon cracks and fill them? There are probably thousands of these, and I just can't imagine doing that. I will if it is necessary, but that would really set me back a while. It seems the more I strip of the hull, the more of them appear. There is just o much information to wade through, and I am still trying to figure out what to do.
Thanks Agian,
Robb
small cracks in my ensign
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Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Whitefield, ME
- Contact:
Robb,
From your description, you do not have blisters. All you are seeing is the typical crazing that forms in the gelcoat of many older boats, particularly Pearsons from the 60s and early 70s. They are not dangerous, and you do not have to grind them all out. Continue stripping the bottom, and when the job is complete, inspect the area to ensure that none of the cracks seem to be of any sort of structural nature (almost unheard of in an Ensign), and then simply repaint as desired.
These cracks are a cosmetic issue only, typically caused by variations in gelcoat brittleness vs. the underlying laminate--and/or an overly thick application of gelcoat.
Don't worry about them. They are common and nearly universal. My boat had them/has them.
From your description, you do not have blisters. All you are seeing is the typical crazing that forms in the gelcoat of many older boats, particularly Pearsons from the 60s and early 70s. They are not dangerous, and you do not have to grind them all out. Continue stripping the bottom, and when the job is complete, inspect the area to ensure that none of the cracks seem to be of any sort of structural nature (almost unheard of in an Ensign), and then simply repaint as desired.
These cracks are a cosmetic issue only, typically caused by variations in gelcoat brittleness vs. the underlying laminate--and/or an overly thick application of gelcoat.
Don't worry about them. They are common and nearly universal. My boat had them/has them.
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robbh
expensive boatyard
Well,
I think I may have found the only possible solutin for getting this boat out of the trailor. I called a "local" (35 minutes away) boatyard, and they quoted me 150 for removing it from the trailer, and 300 a month. Also if I need it reshored at all it will be 25 a time. I guess 500 is going to be the cheapest method available. The thing that kills me is that I would rather pay someone to come to my home and remove it from the trailer, and not pay rent on the land, or drive 35 minutes each way. That way I would own the stands, and there would be no rush on getting the trailer up to par. The more I look at this trailer, the more I am afraid of being put under a timeline for the damn thing. Once again, time and money will tell.
Cheers,
Robb
I think I may have found the only possible solutin for getting this boat out of the trailor. I called a "local" (35 minutes away) boatyard, and they quoted me 150 for removing it from the trailer, and 300 a month. Also if I need it reshored at all it will be 25 a time. I guess 500 is going to be the cheapest method available. The thing that kills me is that I would rather pay someone to come to my home and remove it from the trailer, and not pay rent on the land, or drive 35 minutes each way. That way I would own the stands, and there would be no rush on getting the trailer up to par. The more I look at this trailer, the more I am afraid of being put under a timeline for the damn thing. Once again, time and money will tell.
Cheers,
Robb
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Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Whitefield, ME
- Contact:
Robb,
Why do you need the boat off the trailer? Is it just to work on the areas where the boat rests? This particular post was so long, and I was so behind upon getting back from my cruise, that I admit that I skimmed much of it, so perhaps I should go back and read the whole thing, which might make the reasons more clear.
What is the trailer--are there jackstand-like pads, or bunk-like things (longitudinal or transverse)? If jackstands, just back one off at a time. If it makes you feel better, obtain a separate jackstand to help support the boat while you work.
I think it would be a mistake (not only financially, but logistically as well) to bring the boat to the yard as your previous post suggests. That will only work against you, and the cost you are being quoted is indicative of a yard that is not truly interested in your business--but is willing to overcharge you if you're naive enough to pay it. Steer clear.
You won't hurt your Ensign, almost no matter what you do. With some ingenuity and basic materials (lumber, straps, hydraulic jacks, etc.), you could probably get her off the trailer yourself. The boats are not that heavy, nor that big. However, even if you don't want to do this, I'm sure there's a way around the trailer so you can work on the bottom.
Earlier, you mentioned pictures. If you have pictures of anything--the cracks in your bottom (no comments from the wiseguys, please), the trailer, the bulkhead, and the boat in general, please share them with us. If you want to email them to me, I will post them on this forum for you.
Alternatively, you could hire a crane to lift your boat. Cranes are usually available by the hour. It wouldn't even have to be a big crane. Many Ensigns have an eyebolt inserted in the bilge, which extends deep into the keel; this eyebolt is located at the cener of gravity, so it represents a single-point lifting ring. Check yours out and see what you think. Otherwise, you'll need a crane with straps and, ideally, spreaders. You'd need to supply keel blocking and five jackstands so that you could set the boat up once she was lifted off the trailer.
Why do you need the boat off the trailer? Is it just to work on the areas where the boat rests? This particular post was so long, and I was so behind upon getting back from my cruise, that I admit that I skimmed much of it, so perhaps I should go back and read the whole thing, which might make the reasons more clear.
What is the trailer--are there jackstand-like pads, or bunk-like things (longitudinal or transverse)? If jackstands, just back one off at a time. If it makes you feel better, obtain a separate jackstand to help support the boat while you work.
I think it would be a mistake (not only financially, but logistically as well) to bring the boat to the yard as your previous post suggests. That will only work against you, and the cost you are being quoted is indicative of a yard that is not truly interested in your business--but is willing to overcharge you if you're naive enough to pay it. Steer clear.
You won't hurt your Ensign, almost no matter what you do. With some ingenuity and basic materials (lumber, straps, hydraulic jacks, etc.), you could probably get her off the trailer yourself. The boats are not that heavy, nor that big. However, even if you don't want to do this, I'm sure there's a way around the trailer so you can work on the bottom.
Earlier, you mentioned pictures. If you have pictures of anything--the cracks in your bottom (no comments from the wiseguys, please), the trailer, the bulkhead, and the boat in general, please share them with us. If you want to email them to me, I will post them on this forum for you.
Alternatively, you could hire a crane to lift your boat. Cranes are usually available by the hour. It wouldn't even have to be a big crane. Many Ensigns have an eyebolt inserted in the bilge, which extends deep into the keel; this eyebolt is located at the cener of gravity, so it represents a single-point lifting ring. Check yours out and see what you think. Otherwise, you'll need a crane with straps and, ideally, spreaders. You'd need to supply keel blocking and five jackstands so that you could set the boat up once she was lifted off the trailer.
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robbh
trailer options
Tim,
The trailer I have needs serious work (AKA Junk). I will send some pictures when I get home tonight. I have a-lot of them, so pick and choose what you feel like posting. That being said, the forward supports are merely 2x6's supported by some angle iron. also the keel supports are two peces of large angle iron that hug the sides of the keel to closely and cause scratching and allow me no access. My hope was to get the boat off the trailer, and replace the forward supports. While it was off I could work on the areas I could not get to. I think that I may be able to replace the braces one by one, but the areas on the keel that I can not access need some work, serious sanding, and once again I would like to replace the support down there. I think a logical solution would be to ignore the under side of the keel, and fix everything else. Then when I put her into the water for the first time I will be able to get to that part of the trailer. Do you think I can just back off one support at a time, and not have to worry about the boat tipping? Some friends of mine are recomending a "A" frame of sorts sort of like a large swingset out of 4x4's and some cargo straps. Who knows.
You mentioned the ring in the bilge. I don't know if this boat was filled with water for a while, but I would assume so because that ring is really badly rusted. I would be weary of hanging it from that ring. I'll take a better look at it, take a picture, and send it on to you.
Thanks again,
Robb
The trailer I have needs serious work (AKA Junk). I will send some pictures when I get home tonight. I have a-lot of them, so pick and choose what you feel like posting. That being said, the forward supports are merely 2x6's supported by some angle iron. also the keel supports are two peces of large angle iron that hug the sides of the keel to closely and cause scratching and allow me no access. My hope was to get the boat off the trailer, and replace the forward supports. While it was off I could work on the areas I could not get to. I think that I may be able to replace the braces one by one, but the areas on the keel that I can not access need some work, serious sanding, and once again I would like to replace the support down there. I think a logical solution would be to ignore the under side of the keel, and fix everything else. Then when I put her into the water for the first time I will be able to get to that part of the trailer. Do you think I can just back off one support at a time, and not have to worry about the boat tipping? Some friends of mine are recomending a "A" frame of sorts sort of like a large swingset out of 4x4's and some cargo straps. Who knows.
You mentioned the ring in the bilge. I don't know if this boat was filled with water for a while, but I would assume so because that ring is really badly rusted. I would be weary of hanging it from that ring. I'll take a better look at it, take a picture, and send it on to you.
Thanks again,
Robb
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robbh
I sent some pictures
Tim,
I sent you some pictures. I hope they will be sufficient. Thanks again for all of the advice.
Cheers,
robb
I sent you some pictures. I hope they will be sufficient. Thanks again for all of the advice.
Cheers,
robb
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robbh
Did you get those pictures?
Tim,
I just wanted to make sure you got those pictures I sent to you. where they the right size?
Cheers,
Robb
I just wanted to make sure you got those pictures I sent to you. where they the right size?
Cheers,
Robb
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robbh
More Issues!
Hey Guys,
And again I have more crap with the gelcoat, and it seems that the bottom of the rudder where it mounts to the keel is cracked all the way around. It is the whole bottom aft corner of the keel in about a four inch radius, seems to be cracked. I dobn't know how deep it goes, but it does concern me. Also the gel coat along the lower aft of the keel seems to be worn through with gaps underneath. I have pictures of all of this, and I will e-mail them to Tim so he can post them if he likes. This is really distressing, but I know I will be able to fix it. The hull was looking so good until now.....(feeling sorry for myself) Alright I'm over it. what do I need to do to fix this? any ideas? As usual...More questions from the newbie. thanks.
Cheers,
Robb[/img]
And again I have more crap with the gelcoat, and it seems that the bottom of the rudder where it mounts to the keel is cracked all the way around. It is the whole bottom aft corner of the keel in about a four inch radius, seems to be cracked. I dobn't know how deep it goes, but it does concern me. Also the gel coat along the lower aft of the keel seems to be worn through with gaps underneath. I have pictures of all of this, and I will e-mail them to Tim so he can post them if he likes. This is really distressing, but I know I will be able to fix it. The hull was looking so good until now.....(feeling sorry for myself) Alright I'm over it. what do I need to do to fix this? any ideas? As usual...More questions from the newbie. thanks.
Cheers,
Robb[/img]
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Dave, 397
Does the Ensign use gudgeons and pintles, or straps and a rudder shoe???
And Rob--feel not bad. Once I can talk about it and sort out what to say and which of many pics to use...I'll put up a whole site of Pearson Purgatory. SEA WITCH (#100 which has become Tim's daysailor) was a GREAT BOAT by comparison to my 397.
Dave
And Rob--feel not bad. Once I can talk about it and sort out what to say and which of many pics to use...I'll put up a whole site of Pearson Purgatory. SEA WITCH (#100 which has become Tim's daysailor) was a GREAT BOAT by comparison to my 397.
Dave
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robbh
I'm not sure
From what little I can tell, and I am not sure what those terms mean. I think it is straps and a shoe thing. It looks like the shoe has seperated. Thanks again dave.
Robb
Robb
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Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Whitefield, ME
- Contact:
Robb,
Relax! From your picture of the rudder shoe, there's nothing major going on. The shoe is an external casting that is bolted to the keel deadwood, and then subsequently glassed/bondo-d over, depending on builder's whim and/or subsequent owners. What we see here is a failure of that bondo, and possibly some fiberglass that might have been used there as well. This is common, and extremely cosmetic in nature.
For that matter, in all your photos (which I will post below this), I see only "typical and expected" issues with your Ensign: the usual cracked gelcoat, the usual air pockets in the skin coat beneath, the usual 40 year-old neglect and damage, and the usual bondo/loose cosmetic fiberglass stuff. These issues may be surprising when you run into them unexpected, but from the looks of things you're in the same boat (ha!) as all of us.
One of the things that all of us who love and feel compelled to rebuild old boats have to come to terms with is that their initial construction is often flawed, and that certain aspects of their construction might lead us to severe bouts of unbelieving head shaking, given that we now have the benefit of 40-odd years of hindsight on our sides.
However, trying to reinvent these old boats, and repair their myriad inherent flaws, is something that is generally not worthy. Certain issues you may find during the process will require attention, to be sure. But others--such as inferior gelcoat, some rough fiberglass and bondo here and there, and sloppy workmanship like you saw in your bulkheads--are something that we must accept, lest we go the extreme route and rip everything out of the hull in order to start over from scratch. Only a crazy person would do that...
Relax! From your picture of the rudder shoe, there's nothing major going on. The shoe is an external casting that is bolted to the keel deadwood, and then subsequently glassed/bondo-d over, depending on builder's whim and/or subsequent owners. What we see here is a failure of that bondo, and possibly some fiberglass that might have been used there as well. This is common, and extremely cosmetic in nature.
For that matter, in all your photos (which I will post below this), I see only "typical and expected" issues with your Ensign: the usual cracked gelcoat, the usual air pockets in the skin coat beneath, the usual 40 year-old neglect and damage, and the usual bondo/loose cosmetic fiberglass stuff. These issues may be surprising when you run into them unexpected, but from the looks of things you're in the same boat (ha!) as all of us.
One of the things that all of us who love and feel compelled to rebuild old boats have to come to terms with is that their initial construction is often flawed, and that certain aspects of their construction might lead us to severe bouts of unbelieving head shaking, given that we now have the benefit of 40-odd years of hindsight on our sides.
However, trying to reinvent these old boats, and repair their myriad inherent flaws, is something that is generally not worthy. Certain issues you may find during the process will require attention, to be sure. But others--such as inferior gelcoat, some rough fiberglass and bondo here and there, and sloppy workmanship like you saw in your bulkheads--are something that we must accept, lest we go the extreme route and rip everything out of the hull in order to start over from scratch. Only a crazy person would do that...
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Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Whitefield, ME
- Contact:
Here is a series of photos of Robb's Ensign. Captions and description are mine based on what I see.
This is the hull gelcoat. Sand, fill, fair, repaint as needed.
Air pockets in the first layer of mat beneat the gelcoat--typical, and par for the course. Trying to fix this inherent construction flaw (so to speak) would be ridiculous.
Nothing to worry about here: more of the same, if that.
Ditto.
This is the trailer keel support: looks beefy, if inconvenient to get to the keel for painting or other work.
Here's the happy owner and his new pride and joy. Let's see if he keeps that smile through the whole project!
Here's a view of Robb's boat, showing the area of the bottom that he has already stripped.
The typical Ensign mahogany rudder. These cracks look bad, but will swell up once the boat is returned to the water. Unless there is any rot, punkiness, or significant splintery damage (or any damage) to the rudder, leave it be for now. There may be more than meets the eye, so check the planks for general soundness, check that they don't move alarmingly between themselves, check that the rudder seems well-secured to its rudderpost. If these things check out, then paint it and go. Do not fill the gaps with anything. Do not glass over the rudder. This is totally normal.
Here are the small cracks that started this thread. These are so typical, particularly in Pearsons. Ugly as sin, and possibly you might find a larger air pocket here and there if you dig into them, but they are not indicative of a significant structural problem. Or so it would seem from this view.
Front trailer support. From the looks of your overall trailer, you could easily prop the boat up on external jackstands to get to the areas beneath the trailer supports. With several stands and a little care, you could jack the whole boat up enough to pull the trailer carefully out, then lower the boat onto new stands.
This is the hull gelcoat. Sand, fill, fair, repaint as needed.
Air pockets in the first layer of mat beneat the gelcoat--typical, and par for the course. Trying to fix this inherent construction flaw (so to speak) would be ridiculous.
Nothing to worry about here: more of the same, if that.
Ditto.
This is the trailer keel support: looks beefy, if inconvenient to get to the keel for painting or other work.
Here's the happy owner and his new pride and joy. Let's see if he keeps that smile through the whole project!
Here's a view of Robb's boat, showing the area of the bottom that he has already stripped.
The typical Ensign mahogany rudder. These cracks look bad, but will swell up once the boat is returned to the water. Unless there is any rot, punkiness, or significant splintery damage (or any damage) to the rudder, leave it be for now. There may be more than meets the eye, so check the planks for general soundness, check that they don't move alarmingly between themselves, check that the rudder seems well-secured to its rudderpost. If these things check out, then paint it and go. Do not fill the gaps with anything. Do not glass over the rudder. This is totally normal.
Here are the small cracks that started this thread. These are so typical, particularly in Pearsons. Ugly as sin, and possibly you might find a larger air pocket here and there if you dig into them, but they are not indicative of a significant structural problem. Or so it would seem from this view.
Front trailer support. From the looks of your overall trailer, you could easily prop the boat up on external jackstands to get to the areas beneath the trailer supports. With several stands and a little care, you could jack the whole boat up enough to pull the trailer carefully out, then lower the boat onto new stands.
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heartofgold
- Skilled Systems Installer
- Posts: 237
- Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:47 am
- Location: Pensacola Bay
- Contact:
Boat interiors
I must agree. It would take a total nut case to rip out an interior only to do it all over again.lest we go the extreme route and rip everything out of the hull in order to start over from scratch. Only a crazy person would do that...
_________________
Tim
Heart of Gold's interior since February:
...to be completed this winter.
Doug
http://heartofgoldsails.com
"The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea."
Karen Blixen
http://heartofgoldsails.com
"The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea."
Karen Blixen
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robbh
thanks
Sorry it has been a few days since I last posted. House duties called. I found myself ignoring all of the things that really needed to be done around here. I am almost done with my list, and can once again start sanding on my baby.I appreciate all of the indepth advice, and really appreciate calming me down from what looked to me like a disaster waiting to happen. I'll let you guys know how it's going when I start back up.
Cheers,
Robb
Cheers,
Robb
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robbh
That would be great!
Thanks,
I would really appreciate that. Thank you. I will get back to you all once the work around the house is finally done. Hopefully it will be soon. I miss my boat!
Cheers,
Robb
I would really appreciate that. Thank you. I will get back to you all once the work around the house is finally done. Hopefully it will be soon. I miss my boat!
Cheers,
Robb
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robbh
would you trust it?
Tim,
I sent you the pictures of the ring used to lift the boat. Would you trust it? The reason I ask is that I found out that i have a friend that has a shop with 25 foot ceilings, and a 4ton engine lift hanging from it. He will be out of town for a while serving in a place I will be sooner than later.....=(. In the mean time I have full access to his shop, welder, and tools. Would you trust that ring to lift the baot, or should I fashion a frame and some straps? Just figurted I would shoot it past you, and see what you guys think. This seems like a likely solution to something I have been struggling with. I only need the silly thing to last long enough to lift it, pull the trailor out, set it on stands, and then reverse the process when the time comes. O'ell, just something I figured I would shoot past you. Thanks again.
Cheers,
Robb
I sent you the pictures of the ring used to lift the boat. Would you trust it? The reason I ask is that I found out that i have a friend that has a shop with 25 foot ceilings, and a 4ton engine lift hanging from it. He will be out of town for a while serving in a place I will be sooner than later.....=(. In the mean time I have full access to his shop, welder, and tools. Would you trust that ring to lift the baot, or should I fashion a frame and some straps? Just figurted I would shoot it past you, and see what you guys think. This seems like a likely solution to something I have been struggling with. I only need the silly thing to last long enough to lift it, pull the trailor out, set it on stands, and then reverse the process when the time comes. O'ell, just something I figured I would shoot past you. Thanks again.
Cheers,
Robb
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robbh
wrong title
By the way, I figured I would inform you that me title is incorrect. I am still a bottom sanding grunt.......Soon I will be upgrading my status, but there is much to sand through before then.
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robbh
New topic?
Tim,
Would you prefer I start a new topic every time I have a new question about my Ensign? I figured that because this is a Triton page I would add as little clutter as I could. If you would prefer me to change my tactic, than let me know. Thanks again for all you guys have helped me with thus far. I da appreciate it.
Cheers,
Robb
Would you prefer I start a new topic every time I have a new question about my Ensign? I figured that because this is a Triton page I would add as little clutter as I could. If you would prefer me to change my tactic, than let me know. Thanks again for all you guys have helped me with thus far. I da appreciate it.
Cheers,
Robb
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Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Whitefield, ME
- Contact:
Robb,
I didn't receive an email from you with the picture of the ring. Can you please resend it? ([email protected])
Also, I think this particular thread is getting overly long and awkward, and generally off the original topic anyway. This forum is for all boats, and all boat-maintenance and repair questions, so please start as many new threads as you like.
Actually, I think it's more cluttered having the thread go on as long as this one has, rather than having a number of easily-browsable topics that any interested user can check out.
In any event, there is, and will be, no limit on new threads, or lengths of existing threads, or whatever. If it's about boats, it belongs on this forum somewhere, and I (and others, I trust) will be happy to read it all.
I didn't receive an email from you with the picture of the ring. Can you please resend it? ([email protected])
Also, I think this particular thread is getting overly long and awkward, and generally off the original topic anyway. This forum is for all boats, and all boat-maintenance and repair questions, so please start as many new threads as you like.
Actually, I think it's more cluttered having the thread go on as long as this one has, rather than having a number of easily-browsable topics that any interested user can check out.
In any event, there is, and will be, no limit on new threads, or lengths of existing threads, or whatever. If it's about boats, it belongs on this forum somewhere, and I (and others, I trust) will be happy to read it all.
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