Question on toe-rail fairlead placement

[preserved_killick]

I'm getting near the point where I need to put some sort of fairlead for a mooring pendant up at the bow. When I got the boat last fall, the toerail was a little damaged where the fairlead attaches, as if the fairlead was subjected to a severe upward pull.



Note: fairlead has been removed. It's hard to see, but the end of the toerail was slightly lifted and split.

It's now been repaired, and finished, but I need to do something about a fairlead.







I question the strength of the toe-rail itself. It's through bolted, and I'm able to get to the nuts underneath, but the rail is so tall and thin, I was originally thinking that I needed to do something different as this boat will sit on a mooring, and will likely see some weather.

I found this image of an Alberg with the same toe rails and they built a little block that sits just inside the rail, that the fairlead is mounted to. I'm sure it is through bolted and backed up:



Now, I'm second guessing myself. Are the toerails plenty strong enough?? I mean, the pull should be mostly down. Right? I looked at Tim's Glassando images here:
http://www.triton381.com/projects/resto ... rdware.htm
His Skene chocks are held on by what looks like smallish screws. Surely if the hardware say some upward or outward forces the fairlead would tear out?

I should also admit that I've never owned a boat that sat on an ocean mooring before, and would prefer to overkill the setup for peace of mind, but then I don't wish to start adding stuff, drilling holes willy-nilly. Nor do I want to repair and serious damage to the toerail. I imaging replacing a section of this would not be fun.

I'm interested in other's opinions in the matter. Whos's got a boat on a mooring with exposure?

Do I add the blocks to support the rail and fairlead? Should I just stick the fairlead right on the rail and watch it?

http://picasaweb.google.com/fongemie

-jeff

[preserved_killick]

How to add images??

I can't get the images thumbnails to imbed. BBcode seems to do nothing??

[Rachel]

Jeff,

There's a tutorial up in the "about the forum" section at the top when you first come into the index, but the short answer is that your links need to end in something like .jpg or .gif. I don't believe they can end in .html and show up here.

If you hit "preview" and see the image correctly... that's how your post will look.

By the way, although I don't have any answers to your questions, I share your feeling about putting fairleads on top of the toerail. Even though they're through-bolted, by the time you take away the volume of wood used for the bolt, and take into account the height, it does seem less than structural to put a lot of stress on one area.

Rachel

[David VanDenburgh]

It's darn difficult to tell in this photo, but my A30 has a chock that's built into the toe rail, keeping it nice and low. Sorry I don't have a better photo on hand.



I can't give any words of wisdom regarding mooring, etc, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there. I can get a better picture tomorrow, if you're interested.

David

[preserved_killick]

Thanks David, I downloaded the image and zoomed in close with photoshop and can see perfectly. I love that setup. What year is your boat? I don't remember seeing any other A30's like that. I wonder if it was an added feature.

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,8461.html

That seems like a perfect setup. At this point I'm not sure I have the courage to start cutting into my toerails though. I'm sure it would be easy to so, unless you make a mistake!

David, are you on a mooring? Does the setup work well??

-Jeff

[David VanDenburgh]

Jeff,

Sadly, the A30's on a permanent mooring: she's been on her cradle in my yard ever since I bought her. I doubt that's the kind of mooring you had in mind, though. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

The toerails were redone not long before I bought the boat. Whether someone added the chocks then or whether they're original, I don't know.

I understand your trepidation about cutting the toerail. My stomach was almost in knots when I chiseled the first piece of teak out of our CD36's toerail to install mid-ship cleats. Despite my fear, slow, deliberate work resulted in a near perfect fit (on both sides).



By the way, your boat looks great. Nice work.

David

[Hirilondë]

That seems like a perfect setup. At this point I'm not sure I have the courage to start cutting into my toerails though. I'm sure it would be easy to so, unless you make a mistake!

-Jeff

Let in, skene, through-bolted bow chocks located way forward are in my opinion the best set up possible.

Mortising them in is mildly difficult. Go slow, and test fit until enough material has been removed. You can't put the wood back once removed. You can use, (if you can find them) chocks that fit the profile of your toe rail. Or make a new toe rail to match the profile of the chocks you get (probably a little costly in time and money).These look the best to me. If you can't find the correct profile you can chisel in a drop in the toe rail with a flat landing to locate the chock on. This at least lowers the chock some so that there will be less torque to bend the bolts. You can round over the transition back to normal on either end of the chock, or some such detail for cosmetic purposes. This also makes the size of the landing less critical to looking good. Either way, make sure you don't try to create a mortise where a toe rail fastener is located.



My toe rail has a 1 1/4'" base and a 1 1/8" height, this seems to support a top mounted chock just fine. But where height is greater than base this whole set up gets weaker.

[preserved_killick]

Let in, skene, through-bolted bow chocks located way forward are in my opinion the best set up possible.

If I understand..mount the chock on top of the toerail, but mortise a "sunken platform" to lower the height of the toerail where the chock sits??

-jeff

[Hirilondë]

If I understand..mount the chock on top of the toerail, but mortise a "sunken platform" to lower the height of the toerail where the chock sits??

-jeff

Exactly.

[Tim]

I looked at Tim's Glassando images here:
http://www.triton381.com/projects/resto ... rdware.htm
His Skene chocks are held on by what looks like smallish screws. Surely if the hardware say some upward or outward forces the fairlead would tear out?

My toerail is of quite different configuration than yours: it's just thin boards boxed around an existing molded fiberglass rail, with any resulting voids filled with solid epoxy.

Your toerail is very different: a taller, narrow piece with less inherent strength. Screwing to the top of your rail might incur entirely different results.



I screwed my chocks to this completed assembly because I really had no other choice: no means of throughbolting. I used #14 screws, which fit the size of the chock I chose. The screws are held by 1/4" of wood, some epoxy, and ultimately the 1/4"+ thickness of the molded fiberglass rail within the assembly.

In practice, this has worked fine to date because fasteners in chocks tend to be subjected to shear loading, rather than tension. Still, bolts would be better if it's possible. In your case, a backing block inside the rail, like the photo you showed above, would work better than putting the chock on the toerail itself.

Hirilonde's suggestion is better still and more elegant.

As to strength of the configuration I have, I'd call it generously adequate, and tested under fire. Moored in Falmouth, ME, in a terribly exposed anchorage, a bad spring storm that caused this damage to my anchor platform didn't affect the chocks at all, as you can see:



A similar storm a couple years later--one that brought forces to my mooring lines sufficient to bend a 3/8" stainless place with which I'd reinforced my new anchor platform--did manage to pull out the aft fastener inone of the two chocks (port side), but only because the line ended up wrapped over the top of the overhanging anchor platform, thereby causing an inappropriate lead on the chock and its fasteners, and eventually caused the line to pull out from the chock--taking the aft fastener with it.



Thanks to the bow obviously dipping beneath the seas and picking up the pendant on the upswing, this is where the port pendant ended up--and why the chock ultimately was pulled out.



The same forces that pulled this single fastener out also managed to bend this 3/8" thick SS plate noticeably. The point isn't the problem with the platform or the plate; the point is that the forces at work here were extreme.

Note that I am rather happy to no longer be moored in this location.



The second chock (starboard), whose line didn't get hung up on anything, made it through the same storm in fine fashion.