What is this?

preserved_killick · Post by **preserved_killick** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:22 pm

Taking advantage of the warm weather, I thought I'd get a jump on stripping the VC17 from the boat's bottom. I'm using Franmar Soy Strip, it takes the super thin coating of VC17 off with no troubles.

However, I found that my rudder is coated with something that's not adhered very well. I'm guessing it's not barrier coat, it almost seems like someone trowled on some sort of fairing compound over what looks like green bottom paint. It's easy to pull off, the edge of a scraper pops chunks right off. From these pictures, does anyone disagree? Any other ideas?

http://picasaweb.google.com/fongemie/Sp ... directlink

The next nice day, I'll go out and see how much of this stuff comes off easily.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:22 pm

It does look as though someone may have put the VC-17 on over something else, and it's just flaking off to that lower layer.

I notice that your rudder appears to have a lower gudgeon/pintle (?) The A-30s I've seen have all had a rudder shoe at the bottom, and then one gudgeon/pintle about halfway up.

One other note that may or may not apply: I called the folks at Franmar to see if the Soy Strip was safe for barrier coat (I had VC-17 over a barrier coat, both applied by the PO). After checking with their tech department they got back to me and said that it was not.

Rachel

PS: Just went and had a look at your website. I can't tell for sure, but from faint ghost outlines it looks as though you have the "intermediate" style rudder (in terms of inner construction) that #221 has. It's an interesting mix of fiberglass rudder and "wood brain," with stainless straps, copper rivets, brass rods, bolts, and a wooden strip thrown in for good measure. Frankenrudder! (Joking aside, it hadn't failed at all.)

On mine there was a grey fairing material over the 'glass that looked original, and also some grey, still-softish filler (polysulfide?). doesn't look like you're planning to delve in, but if you do I have photos of mine from when I had it stripped down (I did a bit of improving while I was in there).

Case · Post by **Case** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:03 pm

Seeing that reddish ooze stuff... it really looks lots like epoxy mixed with microballons. It is used for fairing purposes, I forget the usual West System number. The color and texture is just like that!

Maybe the stripper has softened it?

Just a thought.

- Case

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:43 pm

I assumed the reddish, dripping "ooze" bit was just some softened VC-17 + stripper that had dripped (?) I was thinking the blue-green was different paint from before, and the fiberglass was under that (but not visible).

R.

preserved_killick · Post by **preserved_killick** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:08 am

Yes that red goo is dissolved VC17 that dripped.

We've removed most of the VC17 on the rudder, but the layer that's flaking is white, brittle and 1 to 2 ml thick. The green under it I'm assuming is old paint.

It's the white layer I'm wondering about. It can be seen slightly better here:

The white layer appears to be a complete coating over the whole rudder. Could someone have been trying to seal it from water intrusion? I can't imagine anyone putting anything over what looks like soft bottom paint.

If the rain stops I'll go poke some more today.

Rachel, that's for the rudder info. I should look into that. As far as the Franmar Soy Strip, I'm ok with it removing barrier coat. I read back through years worth (every email on blisters, bottoms or barrier coats) of email list postings at the Alberg 30 Mailing List Archive and people unanimously say not to barrier coat an Alberg 30. Everyone who has not, has no blisters, many people who did put on barrier coats got blisters.

I have blisters, lots of tiny ones. And I'm fairly sure I can see a grey barrier coat under the VC17.

-jeff

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:22 am

Looks like a strip to gelcoat or original polyester is in order. Daunting to think about but very satisfying when complete! You'll find, somewhere in the process, whether the ooze is from one of the coatings, from the polyester itself, or from the inside of the rudder. Smell it, for a hint; not that I'm sufficiently expert, but I understand that the ooze from blisters smells acrid; the ooze from poorly catylized polyester smells like new polystyrene model airplanes.

My rudder's ooze was from the inside; the reddish ooze in our old M 27 was from the polyester.

David · Post by **David** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:27 am

It might be some sort of "primer" or barrier coat, but applying it over existing bottom paint was not wise. Is the problem isolated to your rudder or is the bottom that way also?

David

preserved_killick · Post by **preserved_killick** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:44 am

This flaking layer is just on the rudder, the hull is fine..apart from the many tiny little blisters.

On the rudder, the red ooze is a mix of red VC17 and stripper which we were in the middle of when we found this flaking layer stuff.

For the hull itself, I need to look more closely, but the blisters themselves are all less than a quarter of an inch, and I can't tell yet how old they are. They certainly don't have any layer to "pop" but then the boats been dry for two years now. They could be little craters. I'm definitely stripping the hull back to gelcoat. As Rachel said, the Franmar product is not safe for barrier coats, and I can confirm that. I've been able to scrape some off using soy strip.

For now, I'm more concerned with finding out what's up with the rudder.

David · Post by **David** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:16 am

At least it looks like it should scrape off easily.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:12 pm

I'll try to post some photos of my rudder in the next couple of days. If I had to guess, I'd say yours is constructed the same, so I won't have to type 1,000 words per ;) I had mine pretty open so you'll get a good view of the guts.

Starting at the surface I had VC-17, Interlux 2000, greyish/whitish fairing compound, then the base resin of the rudder itself..

Weird that someone would "fair" over bottom paint, but then many people look for "quick" methods, or don't research how beforehand (and sometimes "boat workers" give questionable advice). So I wouldn't be totally surprised to see that.

Rachel

Popeye1865 · Post by **Popeye1865** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:12 pm

if the moisture readings are on the lower end of things strip the hull down to bare glass and either heat it (if were trying to get it finished quick) or let it sit slowly dry. re barrier coat and bottom paint per paint mfg's specs. they do sell a white version of the interprotect barrier coat maybe it was applied over bottom paint by the PO.