Convince me to keep holding tank.

[Chief White Cloud]

I have a Yankee 30 that my gf and I will be sailing to Sea of Cortez and beyond.
I detest complicated systems and although my boat came with some nice equipment such as radar, some things I wouldn't have bought and installed if the boat hadn't come with it.
So, at some point the marelon y-valve handle broke. Why they make anything out of marelon I have no idea and I don't think marelon belongs on a cruising boat, but I digress. This weekend I replaced the y-valve and all hoses to/from head and holding tank. My holding tank is an old keg mounted(fairly poorly) under the v-berth. I admit I have not used the head but a few times. I live aboard in a marina and do the pee bucket on board and all #2 happens at the shore-head. Even after all the work and cursing this weekend I'm about a hair away from taking out the holding tank and putting in a nice porta potti, perhaps with a outlet for pump out as I already have the deck fitting and hose for pump out attached to the holding tank.
I see several advantages:

1) Foremost, once the holding tank is out I'd have a substantial amount more storage space, not to mention saved weight in the bow.
2) At least one less hole in my hull(intake.)
3) Simplicity of the system, less hoses, less smells(hopefully), less worry of hose/thru hull/seacock failure.
4) Great satisfaction from freeing myself from paying for and spending time on hoses, y-valves, rebuild kits, etc.

As far as sensibilities go, we're both fine with old-school bucket method if need be. My old lady is a beautiful, hard core tall ship sailor, so no worries about 'the woman' needing fancy facilities. No need to tell me how lucky I am, I know! No matter if we have a potti or the holding tank, underway offshore we'll use the ass overboard or bucket method.

So, other than the fairly small, imo, hassle of finding a proper place to dispose of contents while at anchor, what really is the down side? I don't know the actual volume of the keg holding tank, but it couldn't be that much more than 10 gallons.
If anyone can convince me to keep the holding tank and not waste all the money and work I did this weekend, please convince me. I'd love to feel that I'd be crazy to just get rid of all that it and use a simple porta potti. All ideas, experiences and opinions welcome.

[Oscar]

Unless you go to Canada you're OK. (They do not count a porta pot as an MSD). I've used both. Porta pot is less smell, period. Once in a while you recycle it and buy a fresh one. Tanks work too....

[Chief White Cloud]

Thanks Oscar. I take it that you don't see any reason(other than Canada -?) to keep the holding tank.
I was under the impression that since a porta potti is not 'permanently' installed that it wasn't subject to the same requirements. My understanding is that a porta potti is completely legal worldwide. Of course how one dumps the bucket or potti tank is highly regulated. Is a holding tank required in Canada? If so surely there must be many small sailboats like mine that do not fulfill that requirement. Any information you have would be appreciated as I DO plan to visit Canada before going down the coast to Sea of Cortez.

[Oscar]

Good reading about Canadian requirements HERE, and HERE.

My statement about portapots in Canada was partially incorrect. They are allowed BUT need to be "premanently installed" and have a pumpout hose attached. It appears these rules apply to inland waters. There's some more interesting rules, eh.

Sewage Restrictions
Help Keep Our Waterways Clean

There are restrictions against pumping sewage into all waters with the province of Ontario and some interior lakes of British Columbia and Manitoba. In these areas, a pleasure craft fitted with a toilet must also be fitted with a holding tank and if fitted with a piping system that allows the discharge of sewage directly overboard, then this discharge must be visibly disconnected. Sewage may only be discharged at shore pump-out facilities.

Portable Toilets

Portable toilets are illegal on Ontario waters.

The owner of a pleasure craft shall ensure that each toilet and the holding tank(s) is/are installed so that;

The toilet and equipment are connected in such a manner that the equipment receives all toilet waste from the toilet.
Equipment designed for the storage of human excrement is provided with a deck fitting and such connecting piping as is necessary for the removal of toilet waste by shore-based pumping equipment.
No means of removal of toilet waste is provided other than the means mentioned above.
All parts of the system for removal of toilet waste are congruent with one another and the boat.

Consumption of Alcohol

In most provinces:
Alcohol may be consumed on board the pleasure craft only if it meets all of the following conditions:

The vessel has permanent sleeping facilities
The vessel has permanent cooking facilities
The vessel has a permanent toilet
The vessel is anchored or secured alongside a dock
Check with the appropriate provincial authorities (OPP for Ontario, SQ for Quebec, RCMP for all other provinces and territories) for carriage restriction

[Chief White Cloud]

Interesting information. Thanks.

[Chris Campbell]

Regarding sewage and Canadian waters, we're generally pretty slack, and you can actually pump right over the side in most places. There is a specific schedule of places where you can't, rather than a blanket statement with exceptions. Here's a link to the places where you can't dump directly overboard: . Schedule 4 is what you're interested in.

And my opinion on the holding tank vs. not - if I were you I'd pitch the holding tank and put in a direct discharge through hull. One more hole in your hull instead of one less, but it serves the purpose in most parts of the world - and where it doesn't you can wire tie the valve shut and use the bucket that you mentioned you didn't mind. I've cruised with a bucket and would take it over a holding tank pretty much any day, as long as I weren't sailing regularly where I couldn't toss its contents over the side.

I don't know this for a fact, but I would be more surprised than not to hear that you could find pump out facilities everywhere you're going. If you can't pump out at a shore-based facility, you'll have to pump out yourself while at sea - and revisiting the contents of your holding tank is considerably less fun than dumping out a bucket, or flushing it over each time you go. Another thought about pump out facilities is that there may easily be some (there were here in Nova Scotia until recently) which pump you out and immediately dump it into the harbour themselves! Why pay for that?

I'd also recommend you post this question to a tropical cruising forum and find out what people who are doing or have done some cruising in the places you're going have to say about it. I'm sure that at least having a way to direct discharge is a necessity - I'd suspect that a holding tank is superfluous.

There are a couple of other options, also, but they entail more money, unfortunately. There are systems which treat sewage right on board and make it acceptable to dump over. I don't know much about those systems, but I believe they're certified for use even in the US, which has pretty strict regulations. The other is the composting head. I'm told that they have improved to the point where they're completely acceptable to the nose, easy to use, and easy to maintain. But once again I am without personal experience to relate.

If you're going to try to keep the holding tank system you should find Peggy Hall's guide to an odor-free head and have a read. That'll at least have that space you're using remain reasonably pleasant, rather than drive you from your own cabin! Here's a link to it.

Phew! I guess I had some opinions on this one!

Good luck making your decision - it's not an easy one, but it sure is important!

Cheers,

Chris

[bcooke]

You are quite lucky with your choice in women. I had one like that once but she moved on to better things.

I did the 5 gallon bucket thing for a season. It worked okay given my general comfort with the idea. I did find myself moored in a swanky marina for a few days and a holding tank would have been nice. Dumping overboard while underway was a hassle too.

I am not a fan of porta-pottis though I have used them.

I don't think you will be reducing the smell level. At least that is not my experience.

Most porta pottis are not particularly stout or reliable either. Breaking it while out in the backcountry would be an annoyance at the least but then you are prepared for the hang over the rail stuff so maybe that's not a real issue.

And the capacity of the porta potties I am familiar with are pretty small. Especially if you have more than one person on the boat. A 5 gallon tank can fill up real quick with guests on board.

I have a holding tank for the 1% of the time when I think I might need it. Plus, it guarantees me compliance with any regulatory agency. I hope I never use it but its there and it keeps me on the good side of the law.

If I had to have a good reason I guess it would be when I am anchoring in the vicinity of others. Nothing says "I am a bad neighbor" like a couple of floaties passing close by with the tide...

Don't stop the cruise if you can't put in a holding tank but I think they are a very 'nice to have' feature on the boat.

Just my thoughts.

[Chief White Cloud]

Chris,
Thanks for the information. I'll go through it.
I've actually thought about how to keep the overboard thru hull and add a pump in the line from the holding tank(or porta potti) so that I can pump out the tank offshore. I don't think I'd use the head and holding tank unless I absolutely had to, I just hate pumping out and having the waste under where I sleep. Still debating but I'm getting closer every day to a porta potti for legal requirements and occasional use, and a bucket or the rail the rest of the time.
A friend got a composting toilet and I would love to go that route but the money is just too much. I'd rather have another couple of months in Mexico!
How is the recore going? I've thought long and hard about doing it myself. My deck isn't too bad and I've done some spot repairs. Thinking I'll wait until I'm in the hot and dry Mexican weather and maybe do it down there on the hard next hurricane season. I really enjoy your website. Keep up the good work and get #70 out there sailing.

bcooke-
Well she chose ME, so I had little to do with it! Yes, fortunate that she not only is willing to do the bucket thing, but is actually pushing me towards it. I'M the one considering keeping the holding tank! I'm not concerned while underway, the big thing to consider is the busy anchorage for a couple days or even weeks depending. I just wonder if I had a five gallon bucket or a porta potti would it be really that much of a pain to just row ashore(yes I'll be rowing or sailing - hard dinghy no outboard) and dump the waste? If that's not a big deal than really for me there is no reason for a permanent holding tank.

Thanks for the responses.

[BALANCE]

I did a fair amount of cruising (weekends and 10 day type vacations) on a 23' Tempest for 10+ years. The boat had a port a poddy, the kind with the suitcase that you pull out to bring ashore to empty. Let me tell you something, you only have to do that once and you will swear you will never do it again. I still gag thinking about it. After that, I was a bucket girl.

It's funny but the head is one thing that every boat owner has specific rules and phobias about - myself included. So when I sail on someone else's boat for distances, I always use a bucket. I refuse to be the one suspected of jamming up someone elses head.

I currently have the holding tank set up but don't use it when I don't have to.