Project Cal25

[cmartin]

The mast is finally down, http://plasticclassicforum.com/viewtopi ... =37&t=4261 , so I can now begin replacing the beam. The first sunny spring day and what's more fun than playing with power tool on the boat?

I started by removing the quarter round trim and the chain plates. Then I worked a chisel around the beam/deck joint to help loosen the resin/glass.



This wasnt too bad, but gave me the first taste of my work to come.



I had higher moisture readings and the beam was sagging, but I didnt realize the deck was so wet. Over the past few weeks MD there has been rain and more rain. However, I dont think this problem started this spring.

Next I pulled out the sawzall. I'm sure there is a more delicate way to do this, but this worked for me.



The beam is wet!



How not to 'bed' hardware.



If you have questionable hardware, fix it now! There are more than a few fittings screwed into my deck, none of which are attached properly.

I started pulling wet plywood off with my hands. In a few areas I used a scraper but it was really just to try something new.



Here is a good photo of Cal25 construction



From the top; deck, plywood, glass cloth.

The proper fix is to remove the rotten wood and install new marine plywood, I believe 3/8".

I'll admit the problem is a lot worse than I expected. I assume there would be some wet spots, so far it's roughly 1/3 of the deck. After a few hours work I now I have to step back and decide what I am going to do.

On one hand the work needed to be done and I like a project. On the other hand, I like sailing more than working on a boat and have been shopping for a Alberg30 or something similar for a while now. I'm not sure it makes sense to fix the boat if I plan to move on sooner than later. Who knows.

[Oscar]

Well, at least you're tearing in there to get to the bottom of it. Keep going until all the bad is gone. Old Dutch proverb says "Soft handed doctors make stinking wounds."

[cmartin]

Another beautiful day, nothing like sweating on the boat.

My goal today was to find the condition of deck under the mast step base.



Here is where I started



I used a wonder bar and an ever dulling chisel to remove most of the core. I first tried scoring a section with a circular saw but the batteries must be shot, ~3 minute run time. I then found a new trusty tool, paint scraper.



This works great for removing the last few mil's of plywood. It's also good at slicing through wiring. :(

After ~45 minutes I have a good view of the bottom of the mast step base.



For some reason I thought I remembered reading this area was solid glass. After poking around a little I found a section of glass that was a little loose. A few whacks with the chisel and I found this



Not the best picture, but it's not solid glass. More rotten plywood. Argh, when will it end?

Still a lot of work to do, but I have a plan of attack. This I need to follow up on:

-either new batteries, or a new cordless tool set. I'm happy with my current tool, but need more than a few minutes battery life. $$
-get a better dust mask. I was using a disposable for a while and when the cheap elastic broke I tossed it away. I'm coughing up some nice bits tonight.
-I need to figure a new method to pass the wiring to the mast. Obviously the existing setup is a big cause of the delamination issues.

[Oscar]

Man, you are on a tear.....

Try googling for the battery, or e-bay. Someone sells them cheap somewhere. Get the cartridge mask....coughing up chunks is not good.

[Tim]

Your health is worth a lot more than good safety equipment will cost you. Be sure to get yourself something comfortable and effective that you will wear. It's not worth short-changing yourself when it comes to safety gear.

[Ryan]

My two cents on the personal protective equipment. If you plan on doing boat work AT ALL in the future, the price you pay for a full face respirator will be some of the best money you ever spent. I guarantee it. I tried the dust mask, then tried a good half face respirator and goggles. On a whim, I bought a 3M 7800 on ebay. If I knew how huge a difference a comfortable full face respirator makes, I would have paid full price for one years ago, and smiled while I did it. It makes all the difference in the world when you are working on messy jobs to actually be able to focus on the actual work as opposed to coughing up chunks, wiping your nose and trying to get bits of dust and debris out of your eyes. FWIW.

[navigator]

The best pearl I have gotten from this board is to own the Multimaster - the full Monty though, not the starter kit. That one tool would have made your endeavor a whole lot easier. Cost is just under $300.00. The kind of work you are doing (and that I have been doing) is only done on the hard, where electricity is not a problem. Battery operated tools are great when there isn't any but they die and then the spare does. These things just slow down your momentum.

[cmartin]

only done on the hard

I wish! I do have power in my slip though. Good idea.

full face respirator

I was just reading up on the different 3M models, good advice. I think the 3M 7800 is overkill, but hopefully it will last a long time.

Multimaster

Funny, I've been thinking about that lately. I didnt realize all the possible functions of the tool.

[Ryan]

full face respirator

I was just reading up on the different 3M models, good advice. I think the 3M 7800 is overkill, but hopefully it will last a long time.

I agree that the 7800 may be overkill (unless you plan to switch to supplied air at some point) but ebay made it a lot cheaper than the 6000 series that seems very popular (and more than adequate). Either is a great investment.

[Rachel]

On the full-face respirator: I bought one after struggling with the half-face/glasses/goggles combination for years. The respirator part of the half-face was great, but it was still hard to keep dust out of my eyes and off my face, which was distracting.

So I got the 3M full-face and a package of the plastic strips that protect the lens. Wow, it was a new world as soon as I put it on.... except that it didn't fit. I had ordered the smallest one (Small), but it was still too large (and I don't have a particularly tiny head). Bummer. So I still wear the half-face one, but I would wear the full-face one for many jobs if I could.

You probably won't have that problem, being male, but it might be nice to be able to try one on before plunking down the cash.

If you do go with the half-face, goggles are much better than glasses. And I would suggest ordering refill cartridges while you're ordering, so you'll have them on hand. Note that on the 3M mask, if you're doing only a dusty project, without organic vapors, you can use the round pink cartridges alone instead of the vapor cartridges with the clip on dust filters (I would still always own both combinations though).

I recently had to buy a new half-face base, and spent the little bit of extra for the silicone facepiece. That was money well spent and people can no longer tell 24 hours later that I was wearing it (the old one made a major, red groove around the top of my nose).

Nan is right; your project is tailor made for the Multi-Master. As a side bonus, it spews much less dust than many other power tools.

Good for you on digging in to find out what's going on.

Rachel

[bcooke]

Full face is the only way to go.

Unless you have tried supplied air. Then that is the only way to go...

[Hirilondë]

Full face is the only way to go.

Unless you have tried supplied air. Then that is the only way to go...

Unless you can afford to pay someone else to do it. Then that is the only way to go.

[Oscar]

Timing is everything. I was about to bring this up. Doing the half face + cheaters + safety glasses thing....and it isn't working. The lungs are fine, but the eyes are taking a beating. So the full face appears the way to go. Do the cheaters fit in there? And how do I get my head inside a small opening with it on my head.... lol. Anyway, does the local temple of home improvement carry them?

[cmartin]

I used the new mask for the first time today, thank you for the recommendation. It's a bit warm but it didnt get in the way at all.



I was able to get the rotten section below the mast step removed.



This sums up the current condition of the project.



I need to get new readings from my moisture meter before I go much further. I didnt expect the core to dy out so quickly and I didnt mark all the wet spots initially.

Also, I need to find a good way to mount the deck fittings, specifically the mast step. The existing screws stop on the core and are not through bolted. Considering the location of the beam to the step I'm not sure there are many options.

I'm still on the fence about buying a Fein or Rockwell oscillating tool. I'm sure either one would be helpful but I'm not convinced the Rockwell is proven and $400 for the Fein is not in the budget for now.

[Oscar]

I didnt expect the core to dy out so quickly

On the surface maybe. Hold a hammer by the business end and push the handle into the core as hard as you can.....bet you'll get a puddle, or in your case a drip.

[cmartin]

On the surface maybe. Hold a hammer by the business end and push the handle into the core as hard as you can.....bet you'll get a puddle, or in your case a drip.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, that wont work. While some of the plywood is delaminated most looks fine on the surface now. There are no drips but the moisture meter shows there is still some wet material to remove. Things really have dried out a lot.

I forgot the camera today but it's mostly business as usual. I used the Porter Cable DA sander today for the first time, great recommendation from this board, again. It has so much more power than the palm sander I've used to date. Big step forward. Of course, it gets heavy after a few hours. :) I was initially unimpressed but then found the speed control and was quite happy sanding away old plywood bits.

I removed what I assume is called the mast step, the fitting on the deck the mast fits over. I was surprised to see how much had corroded. The corrosion actually deflected the deck considerably. I'm not sure if I can just install a new step or if I have to rebuild the deck. The hunt is on for a new step, assuming I'm calling it the right name.



The deck is pretty soft now so I have a few 2x4's and plywood cut to keep it in shape. I'm not a small lad and dont want to put a foot through the deck.

One thing I need to figure out is how to store and clean my fancy respirator. Fresh out of the box it was nice and clean, no more. I'll do some reading, hopefully it's as simple as removing the filter elements and giving it a bath.

[Tim]

One thing I need to figure out is how to store and clean my fancy respirator. Fresh out of the box it was nice and clean, no more. I'll do some reading, hopefully it's as simple as removing the filter elements and giving it a bath.

It is just that simple.

Note that if your respirator uses the organic vapor cartridges, you should really store the respirator inside a closed storage bag or plastic container, as these filters lose effectiveness over time when stored in open air; closed storage minimizes, but doesn't eliminate, this problem.

In practice, this is a step that is frequently neglected by anyone who doesn't have the benefit of an OSHA-approved shop safety department on site at all times to remind you, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. The 2-gallon zipper-top bags work well for this, or if you really want you can buy plastic storage bags made specifically for this purpose.

If you're only using dust filters, then you need not worry about this.

[cmartin]

Great advice on the respirator. It's clean again and the filters are in a zip lock waiting for next time.

I was able to remove the remaining material under the mast step today.



This material was quite wet, obviously this is the primary area of water intrusion.

This was also my last day of major demo, at least for now. Current state of the deck...





I'm finally getting better at this, I was able to remove a few large pieces.



Notice the color of the wood. Not a scientific method, but this piece is 100% drier than what was removed from below the mast step.

I poked around and took many readings with my moisture meter today. There are some smaller questionable areas, primary around the hatches, but they are quite small. I'm not sure if I should start rebuilding now or pull out more material, we'll see.

My real concern now is the deck condition under the mast step. Not the best picture, but I'm trying to show the deflection of the deck.



The sharpie was the closest thing to a straight edge I had handy. I'm not sure if I should fill in the 'dent' or cut it out and glass in a new section. I'm thinking about making it smooth and level on the underside, epoxying the new plywood and then addressing the top. Not sure though.

There are a few spots in the deck with voids and/or gouges I want to patch up before I get too far along.

I still need to figure out a better way of attaching the step and running the wiring. I dont want this to happen again, not matter who owns the boat.

[Hirilondë]

The sharpie was the closest thing to a straight edge I had handy. I'm not sure if I should fill in the 'dent' or cut it out and glass in a new section. I'm thinking about making it smooth and level on the underside, epoxying the new plywood and then addressing the top. Not sure though.

By this are you saying you want to fair the underside of your cabin top and replace the overhead before repairing and testing a leak site?

[cmartin]

The area is question is where the mast step mounts to the deck. I want to make sure I keep it in the same location or I would just cut it out and start from scratch.

One idea is to grind from the bottom and make flush. This would leave the holes in place for the step. I think I could just fair the indentation from the deck, maybe with some colloidal silica for some added strength.

The other idea is to measure the existing setup and mabe make a template. Then cut out the area completely and rebuild with new glass. I'm sure this could work, but I'm not sure it's required.

Also, I'm thinking about installing a plate below the step. Something like this:

This would complicate the installation but would seem to reduce the potential # of holes in the deck considerable. I dont race the boat but have thought of running the halyards to the cockpit.

[Hirilondë]

The area is question is where the mast step mounts to the deck. I want to make sure I keep it in the same location or I would just cut it out and start from scratch.

There are so many ways to record the location to assure you get the step back where it belongs. I don't see the need. Take photos, take measurements and make notes of them, make a template, etc..

One idea is to grind from the bottom and make flush. This would leave the holes in place for the step. I think I could just fair the indentation from the deck, maybe with some colloidal silica for some added strength. .

Why is there an indentation? If it is because of wet coring then your patch will do nothing to resolve the issue. If it is merely crushed you aren't much better off. Colloidal silica is not a structural filler, it is an adhesive filler. It will thicken your epoxy to help fill gaps. It will help it bond to other materials. It will make it as hard as a rock. I will add no lateral strength what so ever. And if the core is wet, then the strength lost is far greater than any filler, even with chopped fiber can replace.

The other idea is to measure the existing setup and mabe make a template. Then cut out the area completely and rebuild with new glass. I'm sure this could work, but I'm not sure it's required.

I would guess it is required and your solution here is a good one

Also, I'm thinking about installing a plate below the step. Something like this:

This would complicate the installation but would seem to reduce the potential # of holes in the deck considerable. I dont race the boat but have thought of running the halyards to the cockpit.

It will also reduce strains on the deck as your blocks and halyards will exert the forces on the mast instead. With the blocks on the deck you are adding to the compression exerted by the mast and forces up at the blocks themselves. The plate has the 2 forces fighting each other if you will.

[Oscar]

Also with the plate there will be a lot less holes (=potential leaks) in the roof, and a lot less work. (If you do it correctly and fill and re-drill all the holes.) I have worked with the plates, I really like them.

It will also reduce strains on the deck as your blocks and halyards will exert the forces on the mast instead. With the blocks on the deck you are adding to the compression exerted by the mast and forces up at the blocks themselves. The plate has the 2 forces fighting each other if you will.

Make sure you get what he said there. The forces on a couple of taught halyards are considerable, especially when you snug down to flatten a sail in a blow. With the halyards going to blocks on the deck the blocks are pulling up, and there's an equal down force being added to the mast pushing on the roof...( in addition to the down force created by the standing rigging.) It all adds up, and there is also a twisting moment in there.

[cmartin]

Thank you for your input.

Why is there an indentation?

It appears to be a direct result of the mast step (aluminum) corroding. The indentation in the deck was full of corroded bits. There is no remaining core material (see the photo's above? :) ), the indentation is only in the fiberglass/gelcoat.

If I cut it out of not I still need to replace the plywood underneath. To get the plywood to fit correctly I need to grind away at the underside of the deflection to make it flush.

My first objective is to find a new step, hopefully I can order one tuesday. I want to make sure it works before I figure out how to attach it.

[Chris Campbell]

So the indentation is in the top skin, which is all that is left there. How rigid is it? Will pushing up on it with plywood bring it back to flat? I would think that now that you've removed the rotted core it's only still down since it's somehow gotten used to being that way, and that if you push it up from below it'll go flat again, allowing you to finish your recore from below and have it nice and level on top. Although if it's been squashed too much you might have some fiber breakage which will leave the laminate weakened, at which point you could grind some off and lay up some afresh to strengthen it. That somehow seems easier than cutting it out altogether, to me - but my experience is very limited.

[cmartin]

Just what I'm thinking.

The indentation is quite solid, I assume it's been this way for some time. Once I figure out the new step I'll have a better idea of my next step.

[Oscar]

Once I figure out the new step I'll have a better idea of my next step.

That's deep......

[cmartin]

I have my moments.

I forgot my respirator yesterday so I didnt really get much accomplished. I did some much needed cleanup, what a difference.

I cleaned up the bottom of the mast step a little.



I am still waiting for the new mast step to arrive. I measured the area under the step I need to build up, ~26mm. I plan to laminate okoume to shape and epoxy it in place.

Not having the respirator I didnt want to fire up the power tools. After a few inches of rain the other day I was pleasantly surprised to see how dry the boat was. Several deck fittings are removed, their holes covered with duct tape. There was a little water in the bilge, but only a few seconds work and the pump had it cleaned up. I thought this was a good time to check the aft deck for delamination. I pulled off some of the glass cloth and was treated to the smell of rotten plywood.



This project just seems to keep going, down. Yesterday was a perfect sailing day and I miss not being on the water. I'm tempted to get into another boat, did I mention I'd rather be sailing?

This is the biggest epoxy job I've done and I'm looking at my options. I started with West then moved to MAS for cost saving and their no blush formula, that sure saves some time. I'm looking at System Three, US Composites, Rake, JGeer.... Nothing wrong with MAS, but some are half the cost and I need at least a gallon or two of resin.

[Oscar]

Tip of the day....For the last hard to identify leaks, get a large can of cheap talcum powder and spread it around the bilge. When it rains (and you're not there) the water leaves a trail to the bilge. Then sprinkle upstream and so forth until you have traced all the leaks back to their source.

[cmartin]

Good advice. At least for now there is no question where the leaks are coming from. Hopefully I'll still be sane enough to try the talk some day.

I took the DA sander to the underside of the step.



The center is pretty thin now. I need to figure out if mat or cloth is appropriate to build up some thickness.

I also removed most of the remaining glass cloth from the port cabin ceiling.



Sure enough, there is some dampness midway through near a deck fitting.

What happens when you get a little slop with a chisel while removing rotten plywood?





Not what I was looking for. How do I patch this section while copying the non-skid? I really dont plan to paint the deck, good place for a sticker?

[cmartin]

A few more hours on the boat this weekend. Great sailing weather, I'm still at the dock...

New tool for the demo.



Saturday I put 2 layers of glass cloth under the mast step. I filled in some of the voids with thickened epoxy followed by two layers of cloth. Overhead cloth sure is fun! The pieces were small enough to wet out on the table them install. I'll need some help if I want to do a piece much bigger.



I went back today and thankfully everything looks good. I then made a template for the pedestal material.



I used file folder stock and need to find a more solid material before I cut the spendy stuff. Total thickness is ~1.25".

The new mast step arrived during the week and of course it doesnt exactly fit. I cleaned up the inside of the mast with some 80 grit paper and its a little better.

I want to get the pedestal surface filled and faired next. Before that I need to clean it up and remove the duct tape residue.

Thinking ahead I need to....

-figure out if I should replace the deck 'core' in one shot or in smaller pieces. Transporting, cutting, installing... ~8' section of 3/8 marine ply isnt easy. I'm leaning towards smaller, more manageable sections.

-order new standing rigging

-order new running rigging, decide if I should switch to all rope from rope/wire halyards. If all rope, new sheaves.

-finalize mast wiring and lights.

One big distraction is this boat across the creek.



I went out in the kayak saturday and spent a few minutes checking it out up close. There is also Alerg30 "Friendship" in the next marina, beautiful boat. Someday.

[cmartin]

Finally some progress.

The mast pedestal was a concern, lot's of deflection and some cracks. I applied 2 layers of cloth underneath then ground down the top.



Then I applied some thickened epoxy, a layer of cloth then more thickened epoxy.



I spent a lot of time making a template for the pedestal support material. I started with thick paper stock, then cardboard, then plywood. Hopefully I'm finally deep into the learning curve and things will progress faster now. I finally test fit the panels.



Then covered them in a coat of unthickened epoxy.



I decided to use 2 pieces of okoume, instead of more thinner pieces. I had some left over from hatch boards I made last year and it seemed like a good fit. I then applied a coat of thickened epoxy to one of the panels with a grooved trowel, this worked quite well. I want this repair to last, hopefully this will ensure good adhesion.



The first panel in place, supported with 2x4's.



I used buckets on the deck to hopefully keep things in place.



Want to talk about scope creep? The old/original Cal25's have a sliding pop-top. The hatch has never slid perfectly smooth, but has slowly gotten worse of the the years. While waiting for epoxy to set up I decided to dig in and see what was going on. I knew the starboard track frame was a little rotten, I planned to replace it once the deck was fixed. I wasnt expecting it to fall apart in my hands though.



I can only guess gravity and the fit of the hatch was keeping it together. I then found the track was cracked, it's plastic. I made a new frame piece out of some scrap but want to investigate my options for track before I put it back together. Maybe another thing I should have left alone?

This weekend was also my first test of Raka epoxy. Looking to save some $$ I decided to give it a try. So far so good, but the test will be when I go back to check on the pedestal. One thing to note, I wasted a lot of time waiting for the slow hardener. Fearing curing too quickly, it's usually hot and humid here in the summer, I went with slow rather than fast. It's slooow. Maybe it's the right choice the the big pieces, but for small stuff I waste a lot of time.

I hit my head so hard today I literally saw stars. I expected to see blood it hurt so bad. Note, standing headroom in the next boat.

After a lot of work this weekend I needed a good meal.



That really hit the spot.

[Oscar]

I went with slow rather than fast. It's slooow. Maybe it's the right choice the the big pieces, but for small stuff I waste a lot of time.

I'm into my fifth gallon of the stuff this project and pretty happy with it. Little or no blush, and pretty predictable. Yes it's slow, but a half quart still gets hot in your hand pretty quickly in the temperatures now. Would hate to see the fast stuff.

[Rich P]

It looks like your making good progress! :) Great write up!

If I discovered core de lamination on my boat i'd probably just set fire to it!

[bcooke]

If standing headroom is what you want you might consider the route my neighbor took...

[Chris Campbell]

If standing headroom is what you want you might consider the route my neighbor took...

Oh my.

[Oscar]

Oh my.

Really, a gambrel roof no less. I would always use a hip facing forward.

[cmartin]

Thanks for the inspiration, but not quite what I have in mind. Who know though, you never know with budgets these days. I'm thinking one of these.



Today I used the pastry bag method and filled in around the panel I installed yesterday. Sure enough, when I removed the supports it stayed in place. I then installed the second piece, same technique. I hope to get back one day this week and fill in again then apply a layer of glass.

[bcooke]

An A30 was on my short list too. Good boat.

If you are going to put a lot of time and effort into a boat it is important to do it with the right one. You will never recover what you put into it if you sell. The only return on investment is the enjoyment and use you get from the boat going into the future.

I should add the disclaimer that my statement only really applies to the types of boats we are usually talking about here. Boats with high priced names like Hinkley and such can be a different story because they command so much more on the used boat market. If you start with a $100k boat and put $100k into it you just might break even or make a little. If you buy a $3k Triton and put $50k into it you might get $20k at the end. Sad but true. Maybe as the old cheap boats start to disapear that will change.

[cmartin]

Story of my life.

This project has been a major eye opener to me. What I thought was a few weekends to replace a rotten beam has turned into a PITA. I'm learning, but most importantly working on a boat I'm not in love with. I figured if I replaced the beam and cleaned the boat up it would sell for more and help fund the A30. Yeah, I missed that one. Now I'm sort of stuck. Buy another boat and give this one away? Spend more time and $$ only to sell it once complete? Doesnt make any sense.

Being stubborn I want to finish it, if only to finish. I'm work in IT, sense of accomplishment is something I get from hobbies.

[Oscar]

Terminal tinkerer, I know the feeling..... go ahead finish it. Goes against the grain to throw it away.

(Although I did break down recently with two late 80's Range Rovers I was going to turn in to one.....during the autopsies I realized it would be WAY too much work, and not even close to worth it economically speaking. Fortunately I was able to sell the juicy parts and scrap the rest and come out ahead....phew!)

[cmartin]

Progress is slow, but it's progress.

Pedestal panel buttered and ready for installation.



In place after curing.



I will need to build up a little, I think it's a good place for some mat.

A side project is fixing the hatch. A piece piece of track is on the base/frame, with a plastic slide on the top/hatch. I need the plastic piece.



I'm open to source ideas. The track is ~7/8" wide, plastic slides are 18" each. I'll need two.

I spent a little time working around the front hatch. The hatch support frame, on the deck, is in need of replacement and has been leaking over time. I pulled away a few inches of plywood deck and it's not as solid as I though. Next time back I'll check with the moister meter.

I need to decide is I should attempt to replace the plywood in 2 pieces or if it's ok is smaller, more manageable bits. Not to mention the being easier to maneuver, only so much fits in my trunk.

I plan to measure the standing rigging, again, friday. Assuming it matches what my notes I'll place the order. More $$. :)

[cmartin]

So I found a use for slow hardener today. Mid 80's today, I'm sure easily 90+ in the cabin. Yes, epoxy does smoke. Oh well.

Today I tried to put a layer of cloth under the pedestal before I start with the plywood. This was only a section ~14" x 36". Wow, what a humbling experience. Epoxy everywhere, I am still picking it off my skin. I was wearing a long shirt and gloves too. More learning curve I guess. There has to be an easier way to apply cloth overhead. If not, I bet .308 will do the trick.

[cmartin]

More fairing of the pedestal top today, hopefully tomorrow is the last bit of sanding there. Then I need to decide on paint. Argh. Seems there are as many opinions as there are sailors, typical.

Today I built up the underside of the pedestal with some mat and then a filet of thickened epoxy around the edges.

I want to put a layer of cloth over everything, time for more overhead cloth. Did I mention applying cloth overhead is a PITA? I'm sure there are some folks that enjoy doing it and do a great job applying cloth overhead. I'm not one of them. After a certain size, it just becomes a mess that wants to stick to me, not the cabin top. Maybe 10 oz cloth is too heavy? I doubt it. The plan for the next application is to support the section with some plactic covered plywood with a few 2x4 supports.

After the cloth in in place it's time to start installing new plywood deck. The original stuff was 3/8" plywood. I have heard of people using 1/2" plywood, but 3/8" seems find. 3/8 = 9.5mm. I can get Okoume plywood in 9mm for a fair price. I asked around and several suggest 2 layers of 1/4 instead. Hmmm. Seems to make some sense; lighter, fits easier to the (slight) deck curve... But, it will take twice the epoxy, take more time, is more $$.... Not sure what to do here. I'm leaning towards 1 layers of 3/8".

Then I need to figure out the game plan to install the plywood, whatever thickness I choose. One piece each for port and starboard? Hmm, that seems like a huge piece to install at once. Lots of weight, hard to handle, lots of epoxy to mix... Maybe I should install several smaller pieces, seems like a simpler approach. But, I want to make sure I'm not compromising strength just for a simpler installation. Do I need to offset the joints, sort of making a puzzle out of the sections? No matter what method I choose, the plywood is going in with thickened epoxy and then covered in a layer of cloth.

Hmmm. Do I cover the plywood with expoy, let it try then layer on the thickened epoxy. Or, do I apply the epoxy and then the thickened stuff while the initial coat is still wet? Decisions.

[Oscar]

Hard to tell exactly what you're facing from here.....one piece of info I can give you.

Epoxy dry, ie no longer sticky is not yet cured. The next layer when JUST tack free will create a chemical bond, which is stronger than what you get when you let it cure all the way, ie a mechanical bond.

As far as working overhead..... Elsewhere we discussed buttering both the ceiling and the cloth, then waiting until it got a little more sticky and then putting it on....May hold better.....experiment with a small piece.....

[cmartin]

A little depressing, the mast has now been down 2 months....

I picked up the new plywood, ouch $$, this week. I might have mentioned but I'm without a truck after an accident and now rely my trusty Thule and friends with trucks way too often. I need a truck.

I laid out my measurements on the 4x8 sheet of solid gold and realized I could never manage a 8' section of deck at once. Too much epoxy, too many clamps/props, wont fit in the car.... So I decided to go with a 4' section first. Time will tell if I made the right decision.

Before I could test fit the panel I had to remove a little more hardware and a lifeline stanchion. Cal25's have a sold piece of wood on the deck that provides considerable stability to the structure. Until now I've only had out a few of the attaching screws at a time to remove the rotten deck. Wow, this seemingly small piece of wood provides a lot of strength!

So after some scraping, cutting, chiseling and cursing I got the panel in place.



I marked all the props and clamps to hopefully get them back in at least a similar spot tomorrow. I covered the edges of the plywood with some epoxy today to hopefully seal them for good, knock on wood.

I'm a little nervous about epoxy application. I'll need to mix up a pretty big batch, my fingers are crossed it doesnt kick until everything is in place.

[Chris Campbell]

Good luck with your epoxy mixing - I share your anxiety. If it helps I have a buddy who watches his coworkers pour gallon buckets of mixed-on-the-fly epoxy from taps in the wall when they lay up racing boats - I figure if it's safe to mix a gallon at a time (and then use it pretty quickly, no doubt!) then it must be alright to do what we're doing. That's what I tell myself, and then I work quickly with the stuff, no question!

Good Luck!

[cmartin]

I got the panel installed, I dont want to get too excited until I see it setup up tomorrow. No time for photo's right now, but here were my steps:

-Sand underside of deck and new panel to be installed
-Clean all surfaces with acetone
-Use packing tape to hopefully keep epoxy off some areas I dont want it
-Do a dry run to make sure everything lines up and supports are in place
-Roll on a layer of unthickened epoxy to the new panel
-Used tiling trowel and applied layer of thickened epoxy to underside of deck and to new plywood panel
-Clamp and stake the panel

I mixed 2 batches of epoxy each for the deck and panel, I was a little nervous it would kick too quickly. I did get started early, for me at least, today to hopefully work in cooler temps. Once spread out the epoxy seems to take a while to kick, while it seems to occur much quicker if left in the mixing cup.

Fingers crossed

[Oscar]

Once spread out the epoxy seems to take a while to kick, while it seems to occur much quicker if left in the mixing cup.

Yes...spread out the heat dissipates....in a "blob" it heats up quickly. Whatever you're doing, spreading buys you time.

[cmartin]

I went back today and was happy to see the panel in place, in what seems to be the correct place. I was relieved to see epoxy has squeezed out of the stanchion holes in the deck, hopefully thats indicative of good adhesion throughout the area.

Now I need to decide if I should do the starboard side next or proceed along the port side.

I also put a coat of primer on the mast pedestal. It's finally faired smooth, close enough for government work at least.

[cmartin]

Best progress today was a truck. Finally.

I picked up some luan ply and ripped a few 2"x4' strips to make a template for the next deck panel. I'm glad I tried this, it seems to have worked great. Hot glue is a wonderful thing, when it's not leaving strings everywhere or burning your fingers.

I now have to cutout the new panel in Okoume. Considering how spendy this stuff is I want to make sure I get the most out of my stock so I'm not exactly sure of how to cut this out yet. I'm sure I'm over thinking this as usual.

I found a little more rot around the forward hatch and pulled most of it out. One spot I need to figure out is above the forward head wall. I removed the tabbing at the top of the panel and removed several screws but it's still in place. It's a finished piece I'd rather not recreate so I need to tread lightly. However, I'm ready to get this job done so we'll see.

I then installed a layer of cloth under the pedestal, after applying the last coat of thickened epoxy. The area is now smooth and just about level. I'll know for sure when I see it setup and go over it with some sand paper, but I feel confident it's ready for plywood.

I finally see the reason for Tyvak suits. It seems no matter how many layers I wear epoxy finds my skin like my golfball finds the woods. It would be funny it it wasnt so darn sticky. I think the shifter in the car has my finger prints epoxied in permanently. I wear gloves and washed my hands at least 3 times. I just dont get it.