I am in a quandary. I have found a boat I think I would like to buy. Aux. power is an 11 h.p. Universal diesel. The boat weighs in at 9400 pounds displacement. It is a fin keel. I have a friend who is desperately trying to steer my away from buying the boat, as I am going to equip it for light coastal cruising (long weekends with the fiance), and obviously a lot of daysails, and he maintains that the boat will be seriously underpowered for such things. He says that as equipped, this boat was meant to be raced and the engine was meant only to push the boat out to the racecourse, and not to actually cruise with.
Anyone have any opinion here? Will this little thing push the boat to hull speed or no? Will I be horribly disappointed in it? The boat is described as a cruiser/racer, but I want to use it primarily as a cruiser.
thanks,
m
I have universal, ahem, Universal power.
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Dave, 397
The prop is not shrouded in an aperture, so you will get pretty good efficiency from it, right?
I mean, I know I am an odd guy to be encouraging these things (LOL!), but...
A 10 HP outboard moves a 10000 pound boat just fine. People move Tritons with a lot smaller while they are loaded down with gear. That 11HP diesel should do very well, really, when you consider that the aperture-shrouded prop of a full-keel Atomic 4 install can only really deliver 10-12 HP of the vaunted 25 total...or something very close to that.
I have seen boat with much more wetted area and similar or greater weight chug along great on 1GM10's and 1GM12's. You are not going to be a speed demon, but it is not a motorboat and I really do not think you would see a huge amount of speed improve with more HP...again we get to a point where the prop is the limiting factor. Swinging a bigger or more-multiply-bladed prop may help some in that regard, but the drag will be much greater and the sailing abilities of the boat will suffer a good deal...rendering you that much more dependent on motorsailing.
Just remember, that any boat which can really sail well--should the fat be truly in the fire--has much more applicable HP against a lee shore in a mean blow IN THE SAILPLAN.
Take the boat out and give it a try? If you like the boat, then why not?
Best,
Dave
I mean, I know I am an odd guy to be encouraging these things (LOL!), but...
A 10 HP outboard moves a 10000 pound boat just fine. People move Tritons with a lot smaller while they are loaded down with gear. That 11HP diesel should do very well, really, when you consider that the aperture-shrouded prop of a full-keel Atomic 4 install can only really deliver 10-12 HP of the vaunted 25 total...or something very close to that.
I have seen boat with much more wetted area and similar or greater weight chug along great on 1GM10's and 1GM12's. You are not going to be a speed demon, but it is not a motorboat and I really do not think you would see a huge amount of speed improve with more HP...again we get to a point where the prop is the limiting factor. Swinging a bigger or more-multiply-bladed prop may help some in that regard, but the drag will be much greater and the sailing abilities of the boat will suffer a good deal...rendering you that much more dependent on motorsailing.
Just remember, that any boat which can really sail well--should the fat be truly in the fire--has much more applicable HP against a lee shore in a mean blow IN THE SAILPLAN.
Take the boat out and give it a try? If you like the boat, then why not?
Best,
Dave
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penthink
You make some valid points. Only problem is, the boat is on the hard, so it is going to cost me all outdoors to have it put in the water and taken back out. I suppose it is a small price to pay if we find out that it really is seriously underpowered, and by the same token, if we find out it is not, we have a great little boat on our hands. Thanks for the advice!
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The Good Goose
- Skilled Systems Installer
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 6:21 pm
Universal
I have a 1gm 10 in my triton and find it very adequate for extensive cruising we ran it for 8 days on our trip from CT to VT and averaged 5 kts. I think you would do better with a fin keel and a prop not in aperture. My prop is not really sized right for the engine either. If the boat is a good deal and you like it I would not let the engine deter you in the slightest.
Brock Richardson
Brock Richardson
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penthink
No soul
A soul-less, personality-less 1982 Pearson 32, that I lost interest in. I imagined myself sailing a boat with no wood whatsoever and couldn't bring myself to do it. I mean, why would I want something that I could just drop in the water every spring versus spending five weekends sanding and varnishing?
See? I haven't completely lost my mind!
See? I haven't completely lost my mind!
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Dave, 397
Whispers From The Devil's Advocate (the evil mast-adder)
Psssttt....Keep...The...Cheoy...Lee...!
Keep...The...Cheoy...Lee...!
This...is...the...same...evil...voice...that...is...making...Dave...add...a...second...mast...to...his...Triton...
I...am...your...father...Penthink!
Keep...The...Cheoy...Lee...!
This...is...the...same...evil...voice...that...is...making...Dave...add...a...second...mast...to...his...Triton...
I...am...your...father...Penthink!
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penthink
Must resist the forces of the dark side...
Well dammit Dave, find me a cute little Herreshoff project boat that I can do in my garage that will not lead to a pre-marriage divorce!
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bcooke
- Master of the Arcane
- Posts: 2272
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 10:55 pm
- Boat Name: Jenny
- Boat Type: 1966 Pearson Triton
- Location: Rowley, MA
- Contact:
What is up with that second mast idea anyway?! <smiling and shuffling to keep my crazy ideas hidden behind me>
A boat doesn't need wood to have a soul. You just have to look harder to find it. I have one next to the garage and it takes me an hour every spring to get it ready to sail. Beware the dark side.
10hp sounds fine to me - adequate at least. You aren't pulling water skiers are you?
A Herreshoff project will definitely lead to divorce court. Lovliest boat I ever sailed though...
-Britton
A boat doesn't need wood to have a soul. You just have to look harder to find it. I have one next to the garage and it takes me an hour every spring to get it ready to sail. Beware the dark side.
10hp sounds fine to me - adequate at least. You aren't pulling water skiers are you?
A Herreshoff project will definitely lead to divorce court. Lovliest boat I ever sailed though...
-Britton
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Dave, 397
I'm gonna make a yawl, y'all.
See, I saw this pic of a little Tartan 27 yawl with Everything but the kitchen sink strapped on it...and then I thought about all these spars I hav ended up owning by default ("Don't! Stop! I'll just toss it on the mast trailer and take it over to my shop!!!").
While the boat is still for all intents and purposes a sloop, and lengths have been gone to to make a way to balance the helm without making the main smaller (read:Sprit), I like light air HP a lot and want to keep the boat going WFO as much as I can.
I LIKE that mizzen staysail a WHOLE LOT!
The stock Triton yawl used a shorter mainmast and mainboom. I don't intend to chop mine down if I can help it, so my mizzen gets real teeny, see? I am curious if I can use something akin to a riding sail on the mizzenboom and do away with the windvane by driving a sheet-to-tiller system that way. Regular S2T is not course stable enough to leave alone for hours on end in my book. Otherwise, the mizzen halyard will go to the tail of the mizzenboom, the mizzen rolls up around said boom, and up she goes tight to the mizzenmast so as to rig the 'vane" part onto the 'vane gear'. See? Dumb, huh?
With the shorty mizzenmast I would be employing, I may even be able to get away with no spreaders on it. That would be nice indeed!
The boomkin has always been a stumbling block of a thorn in my side, but I saw another Tartan 27 pic that had none and it REALLY got me going. Hey, I have most all the stuff this takes, so WHY NOT??? If it stinks or if it's just too much hassle, I can always toss it over the side and only lose about 250.00!!
I'll send Tim these two pics to maybe post. On the one with everything strapped on, picture it as a Triton...then picture it without the flown chute and spinnaker staysail, and with an asym there instead that is taked out on ye olde retractable jib boom about 5-1/2 feet in front of the boat. Hey, I'll send a pic of one of these hi-tech devices, too. OK...now, the clew of that big Obnoxisol goes all the way back to just forward of the primary winch, good? NOW...leave the rest of the Tartan pic's sail setup there. See??? WAAAAAHHHHHHH HOOOOOOOOO (just like Slim Pickins in 'Dr. Strangelove, perhaps!)
Dave
See, I saw this pic of a little Tartan 27 yawl with Everything but the kitchen sink strapped on it...and then I thought about all these spars I hav ended up owning by default ("Don't! Stop! I'll just toss it on the mast trailer and take it over to my shop!!!").
While the boat is still for all intents and purposes a sloop, and lengths have been gone to to make a way to balance the helm without making the main smaller (read:Sprit), I like light air HP a lot and want to keep the boat going WFO as much as I can.
I LIKE that mizzen staysail a WHOLE LOT!
The stock Triton yawl used a shorter mainmast and mainboom. I don't intend to chop mine down if I can help it, so my mizzen gets real teeny, see? I am curious if I can use something akin to a riding sail on the mizzenboom and do away with the windvane by driving a sheet-to-tiller system that way. Regular S2T is not course stable enough to leave alone for hours on end in my book. Otherwise, the mizzen halyard will go to the tail of the mizzenboom, the mizzen rolls up around said boom, and up she goes tight to the mizzenmast so as to rig the 'vane" part onto the 'vane gear'. See? Dumb, huh?
With the shorty mizzenmast I would be employing, I may even be able to get away with no spreaders on it. That would be nice indeed!
The boomkin has always been a stumbling block of a thorn in my side, but I saw another Tartan 27 pic that had none and it REALLY got me going. Hey, I have most all the stuff this takes, so WHY NOT??? If it stinks or if it's just too much hassle, I can always toss it over the side and only lose about 250.00!!
I'll send Tim these two pics to maybe post. On the one with everything strapped on, picture it as a Triton...then picture it without the flown chute and spinnaker staysail, and with an asym there instead that is taked out on ye olde retractable jib boom about 5-1/2 feet in front of the boat. Hey, I'll send a pic of one of these hi-tech devices, too. OK...now, the clew of that big Obnoxisol goes all the way back to just forward of the primary winch, good? NOW...leave the rest of the Tartan pic's sail setup there. See??? WAAAAAHHHHHHH HOOOOOOOOO (just like Slim Pickins in 'Dr. Strangelove, perhaps!)
Dave
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Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Whitefield, ME
- Contact:
Dave,
I love yawls. My next boat (if) will be a yawl, assuming it's some sort of classic/CCA-type hull. Nothing looks finer than a yawl.
That said, everyone knows that the yawl mizzen sail is useless, except as a steadying influence and, at anchor, as a fine riding sail. The mizzen staysail is admittedly a cool addition, but I wonder how useful it would be on a boat as small as a Triton, which really gets (to my eye) cluttered with the yawl rig. I wouldn't bother with it on a Triton myself, but for now, let's consider that a moot point.
Now, forget that opinion for a moment. Here's something to chew on: since the mizzen sail is worthless, and you've been lamenting over how to install your windvane, etc., what about just installing the stick so that you can use it for your staysail when desired, but don't have to deal with the boom and mizzen sail? You could conceivably mount the mizzen mast further aft, say in the center of the poop deck, since you would not be running a boom off it.
There's no denying the tiny mizzen on a Triton-sized boat would be silly to begin with. So why not just stick the mast in and call it good? Maybe it's a little goofy, but if the whole point is to fly a mizzen staysail when reaching or running, who cares about the mizzen?
Alternatively, continue with the thought of mounting the mizzen further aft, but keep the boom: but just construct it so that you can pull it up to almost vertical when not in use. Then, if you wanted the riding sail at anchor or whatever, lower the boom. Buyt when sailing at sea, you'd be a sloop, with the mizzen boom out of the way of the windvane, though the mast would be there for you to fly your staysail from.
I love yawls. My next boat (if) will be a yawl, assuming it's some sort of classic/CCA-type hull. Nothing looks finer than a yawl.
That said, everyone knows that the yawl mizzen sail is useless, except as a steadying influence and, at anchor, as a fine riding sail. The mizzen staysail is admittedly a cool addition, but I wonder how useful it would be on a boat as small as a Triton, which really gets (to my eye) cluttered with the yawl rig. I wouldn't bother with it on a Triton myself, but for now, let's consider that a moot point.
Now, forget that opinion for a moment. Here's something to chew on: since the mizzen sail is worthless, and you've been lamenting over how to install your windvane, etc., what about just installing the stick so that you can use it for your staysail when desired, but don't have to deal with the boom and mizzen sail? You could conceivably mount the mizzen mast further aft, say in the center of the poop deck, since you would not be running a boom off it.
There's no denying the tiny mizzen on a Triton-sized boat would be silly to begin with. So why not just stick the mast in and call it good? Maybe it's a little goofy, but if the whole point is to fly a mizzen staysail when reaching or running, who cares about the mizzen?
Alternatively, continue with the thought of mounting the mizzen further aft, but keep the boom: but just construct it so that you can pull it up to almost vertical when not in use. Then, if you wanted the riding sail at anchor or whatever, lower the boom. Buyt when sailing at sea, you'd be a sloop, with the mizzen boom out of the way of the windvane, though the mast would be there for you to fly your staysail from.
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Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
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Dave, 397
That last part...was what I'm thinking of, unless I can use the mizzen or some small something on it as a means of driving ACCURATELY a sheet-to-tiller setup using Amsteel in carbo blocks to reduce friction and stretch.
I like the idea of the mizzen mast in the middle of the aft deck, but I already put a lazarette hatch there! Youch!
I have considered, though, placing the base of the mizzen mast just aft of the spot where the mainsheet winch once mounted and running a compression post beneath. All said, it would be a real teeny mizzen.
Right now I am still trying to think of the best way to split the backstay for all this. It sure does make hardening the backstay going to weather more complicated than a single handwheel!
Several of out fellow Tritoneers have offered to take photos and dimensions for me, and I am hoping that a picture is worth a thousand words....
Dave
I like the idea of the mizzen mast in the middle of the aft deck, but I already put a lazarette hatch there! Youch!
I have considered, though, placing the base of the mizzen mast just aft of the spot where the mainsheet winch once mounted and running a compression post beneath. All said, it would be a real teeny mizzen.
Right now I am still trying to think of the best way to split the backstay for all this. It sure does make hardening the backstay going to weather more complicated than a single handwheel!
Several of out fellow Tritoneers have offered to take photos and dimensions for me, and I am hoping that a picture is worth a thousand words....
Dave