Brown stuff running down from A-4 exhaust...

[PenokeeBlue]

Hi all,

I hope I'm posting to the appropriate area of the forum. More questions on the boat I'm looking at purchasing. Current owner has never had boat in water, so doesn't know much.

Concerning the engine, he said he had a previous buyer who requested that boat be launched and the engine run. Buyer brought own battery.

They got the engine started, but it would only run if they nursed it along by playing with the carburetor adjustments. Not much water was coming out so they suspected an impeller problem and shut it down. Then the buyer disappeared without paying for the haulout and that was that. Owner said impeller looked okay, but mechanic said they can take a set and changing it would probably fix that problem.

Also apparently some problems with the shifter linkage, but he couldn't elaborate.

I noticed a brown, oily looking line running down the transom and hull from the exhaust tube hole (moved from below counter to lower part of transom; I could see a muffler (?) setup in the aft lazarette. Would this be a part of running rich or something with a bad carb?

Ah the fun of buying a budget boat :-)

Oh another question that could sort of fit in this post: The stbd cockpit locker was filled in up to within ~6" of the top with a fuel tank. Couldn't see the actual tank, because there was plywood on top to make a locker of it, but the fuel fill was there. This must be added tankage from original, right?

Hope I'm not boring everyone (you too will be glad when I find a boat ;-)

[Tim]

Oh another question that could sort of fit in this post: The stbd cockpit locker was filled in up to within ~6" of the top with a fuel tank. Couldn't see the actual tank, because there was plywood on top to make a locker of it, but the fuel fill was there. This must be added tankage from original, right?

No, that's the brilliantly-conceived, as-designed-by geniuses, original and standard placement for the fuel tank.

I noticed a brown, oily looking line running down the transom and hull from the exhaust tube hole (moved from below counter to lower part of transom; I could see a muffler (?) setup in the aft lazarette.

The muffler is not standard, so someone must have reconfigured the exhaust and removed (or at least decommissioned) the copper monster (jacketed solid exhaust) that was standard equipment. Rusty discharge from an engine that's old and been stored for some time would not be unusual.

I'll let A4 guys answer the other questions you had about the engine.

[bcooke]

Ah the fun of buying a budget boat :-)

It doesn't get any better than this!

I am not the A4 guy Tim mentions but a brown oily streak coming from the exhaust would not be from an overly rich mixture. A rich mixture would leave more of a dry, black but dusty looking streak. I wouldn't hazard a guess from the description but if it is truly oily you might have bigger problems (motors aren't needed on sailboats anyway... :-) Anyone want to bite on that topic?!). On the other hand, since it sounds like the motor has not received an overabundance of care anyway it might just be rusty water stains from sitting a long time.

As for running rough, sitting a long time could be the answer there too. The gas may have begun to go bad. I suspected the same in my boat and was siphoning out a little fuel at a time and putting it in my pickup to dispose of it. I was thinking that it would dilute in the almost full fuel tank of my truck and not be a problem. Three weeks later my fuel injectors plugged up and the truck ran really rough. I also gave some of the gas to a yard worker for their power washer and I noticed that it was running pretty rough afterwards too (oops! you get what you pay for). Bad gas will do that.

No, that's the brilliantly-conceived, as-designed-by geniuses, original and standard placement for the fuel tank.

Wasn't Nathan working on a replacement tank for me?! What did he find? I am looking forward to ripping out that brilliantly located tank myself. Probably a smaller one located aft of the engine (remember sailboats don't need motors anyway) like Tim's and I think some of the older Tritons according to an interior drawing I have.

-Britton

[PenokeeBlue]

Thanks for the info. You know, I'm not sure if the stain actually *was* oily. Now why didn't I swipe at it? I guess I'm in denial about having to have an oily, fuely engine in my nice clean sailboat! Not that I have the sailing skills to avoid it (yet?)...

So why did I say the stain was oily? Thinking back, I guess because it was brown - the color of old motor oil - and it looked as though it had run down the transom in liquid form. That is, it went the couple of inches down the center of the transom, then "turned the corner" and ran down the stern counter, pretty much right down the center-line, to the waterline. Something like a dry, powdery discharge would probably have just stained the transom and then gone on its merry way, not running down the stern counter, right?

You know, I almost went for an Ariel - or something else - because I *really* wanted that outboard-in-a-well and not an inboard. But size-wise, the Triton just feels right. I wonder just how hideous the outboard-on-the-transom is (besides being a bit ugly). I've read everything I can find about it, and opinions seem to run the gamut.

--- Rachel

[bcooke]

I wonder just how hideous the outboard-on-the-transom is (besides being a bit ugly). I've read everything I can find about it, and opinions seem to run the gamut.

The gamut is right. Outboards have their advantage but they are too hideous in my opinion. I have a lot of other reasons both pro and con but ultimately it is the asthetics that sway me.

-Britton

[Figment]

I beg to differ. Carbon and unburned fuel (mixed with coolant discharge water) can look for all the world like oil. If you run an A4 rich enough, you can get an oily discharge out the tailpipe. Your note about "they could only keep it running by fiddling with the carburator controls" leads me to suspect that the main jet is a bit plugged, and they had to futz with the choke to get it to suck enough fuel. This kind of futzing invariably leads to very rich running.
Alternatively, as you say she's been sitting for a while, you could have a couple of stuck piston rings. A squirt of mystery oil in each cylinder may do the trick.

Problems with the shifter linkage?
Is the shifter in question like a big rod stuck into a hole in the cockpit sole (the original A4 shifter installation) somewhat visible aft of my leg in this pic?
These things are near bulletproof, but it can be a bit tricky to "find neutral" in a lot of A4s. If this original linkage was replaced with a cable system, then yeah you may have an actual problem. A4s need a good bit of force to shift, and as a result a retrofit cable system can develop problems over time.

Not much water discharging from the exhaust... Impellors are cheap. Replacement is a no-brainer, but don't be completely surprised if this doesn't fix the problem. A lot of raw water cooled A4s develop heavy rust and scale in the coolant passages which can restrict flow. An acid flush may help in this case.

By all means, dispose of the old gas and begin anew.
Oh, so tritons with hinged-seat lazarette access have the fuel fill direct on top of the tank??? A great idea!. I wasn't looking forward to reconnecting that S-turned hose.

[Tim]

Oh, so tritons with hinged-seat lazarette access have the fuel fill direct on top of the tank???

No, actually the fuel fill is on the sidedeck, outboard of the coaming--probably the same place and overall configuration as the early "death locker" boats. However, access is much easier with the top-opening lids, since you can actually see and reach in there, and all the way up to the bottom of the deck plate fitting.

[PenokeeBlue]

Thanks for the additional info, Figment.

Re: the shifter - So *that's* what that big oval capped-over thing was in the cockpit sole --- the original shifter mount! This one obviously had a replacement, in the stbd "wall" of the cockpit well. Perhaps that's why the problem.

Re: the "oily" stream - the engine is freshwater cooled (no idea if original or retrofit. Wait, it must be retrofit because there's a cunning little door cut into the side of the sink counter (facing amidships) that looks like it was done a long time ago, but not factory. Inside this door is the little overflow-type tank for the engine coolant. Not that the engine looks overly cared for...

Thanks again all,

--- Rachel
(haven't ruled it out yet :-)

[A30_John]

Rachel,

I have had two sailboats with outboard motors, and here's my take for what it's worth.

I wouldn't want one in a well unless the motor could be tilted up out of the water while sailing and while the boat is on the mooring growing barnacles.

When using the motor in steep chop, the propeller will come out of the water. It is very unnerving.

If the motor is on a bracket, it's a royal pain hanging over the back of the boat to manouver the engine and start it. It can also be a safety issue in bad weather. And, there's no doubt about it -- outboards on a bracket look awful.

Just when you need it the most, it won't start.

They have very limited charging capacity.

On the plus side, they are relatively cheap and easy to service. If you sail in heavy weather and only motor in calms, then an outboard could be a solution - but not one on a bracket! :-)

Given a choice, I would opt for an inboard diesel.